The Obsidian Mirror Campaign story is good, more of that!

Age of Mythology: Retold Discussion
1

The Obsidian Mirror campaign was more interesting and less straight forward then the other campaigns so far. The story of the Chinese and Japanese campaigns was kinda forgettable to be honest.

We actually get the major gods as playable heroes? Awesome!

The story is also not simply black and white, good and evil. The ā€œbadā€ guy actually helps the characters from the base game campaigns and the ā€œgoodā€ guy does a lot of bad things.

My main criticism of all previous campaigns was that almost all matches are mirror matches (with the exception of the New Atlanthis campaign), but in this campaign you fight against, Atlanteans, Egyptians, Norse and Greeks, and that even more then once.

I only have some tiny criticisms like that we donā€™t get to found Tenochtitlan ourselves.

What do you think?

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2

Yes, itā€™s the Aztec campaign I more or less had in mindā€¦ Huitzilopochtli fighting in the Valley of Mexico and founding Tenochtitlan (that was a missed opportunity to learn the mechanics of the Aztecs and make it an economical mission), while Tezcatlipoca allied himself with Kronos and Halogi to fight against our Aztec heroes (Quetzalcoatl) and the original heroes: Arkantos/Kastor, Ajax, Amanra, and the Norse. But I didnā€™t see that plot twist of Tezcatlipoca allying with the original heroes coming, and itā€™s really coolā€¦

3

It is a breath of fresh air compared to the Chinese & Japanese campaign which felt kinda samey

An interesting departure compared to before is kinda how ā€œnormalā€ the gods are in a strange way, kinda the first time they are ever depicted likeā€¦amongst people, even loki was never seen directly and that was probably the closet we ever got, and chronos and gaia were titans

The first mission is kinda of an interesting twist to the way campaigns are designed, it kinda assumes you can play RTS pretty well but you do get to see all the civ has to offer right out of the gate and it fits the theme of a great civilisation crumbling

4

Amazing campaign. There are couple boring missions but otherwise it is Fall of the Trident level.

Also the campaign has couple pretty tough missions too, which didnā€™t exist in any other campaign than Fall of the Trident.

The story itself is quite good.I liked Kastor and his otherworldy beauty (exactly as I would react in real life :laughing: ). The norse section was quite awful. What gave it immersion was Tezcatlipoca is supposedly evil but Huitzilopochtli and Quetzacoatl are not perfect either. I was kind of rooting against Quetzacoatl. Havent finished it yet, 3 missions more to go, but so far really cool.

5

Yes, thatā€™s trueā€¦it was an interesting twist to start strong and then gradually build to the endā€¦

Yes, I would compare it to The Titans/New Atlantis because itā€™s a 12-mission campaign and because of Kastorā€¦ I think itā€™s the best campaign since The Titans and would be ranked like this:

  1. Fall of the Trident (the best of the best)

  2. The Titans/New Atlantis (because itā€™s a direct continuation of Fall of the Trident)

  3. Obsidian Mirror (because of the plot twists and the nostalgia plays)

  4. Heavenly Spear (because of all the Japanese mythology)

  5. Immortal Pillars (because it fixes the Dragon Tale campaign)

  6. The Gift of Gold (itā€™s simply a bonus campaign)

  7. Mythic Battles (because theyā€™re only two very short scenarios)

I would add Arena of the Gods after New Atlantis, but I wouldnā€™t consider it a campaign per se, but rather skirmish scenarios with the occasional cutsceneā€¦

6

I liked it a lot!

It was quite fun.

And I wasnā€™t expecting a direct sequel to Castorā€™s campaign with new characters. I didnā€™t even know the protagonists were part of a Mesoamerican myth. That was great.

All good.

That said, as a criticism, I would have liked more city destruction levels: Many levels were more like City Defense, so much so that I rarely found myself needing or able to use the Quinametzin (IV).

7

Yes, the Aztec heroes are Itzcoatl and Tlacaelel, who were Aztec leaders between 1427 and 1440ā€¦

8

I donā€™t think I used them even once. You only had to destroy pretty small defences, never like a fully Castle or something.

I donā€™t think historic dates have any influence on AoM chronology.

Ajax lived 2500 years before the events of the Japanese campaign.

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Yes, in AoM the chronology is more flexible and can happen at any time, anywhereā€¦

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10

Iā€™m going to have to respectfully disagree, Iā€™d say this was worse than Heavenly Spear, which was a step in the right direction (I think its unanimous that FOTT and TNA are the best).

First, non-gameplay wise, the actual story seems a bit bitty. I like the concept but cutting between three narrative threads that seem to just hop from beat to beat doesnā€™t feel smooth. Especially Act 2 - itā€™s cool with the returning characters but we just hop around the place with no actual thread. The Kamina storyline is very pointless considering she just gets zipped, why could Kastor not have got zipped, and the thread then leads us to the Underworld to get him back, which leads wouldā€™ve been Tezcaā€™s plan all along to get home? Whatā€™s the point in going to Midgard? The dialogue is also very hammy and a bit sub-par, especially in the context of FOTT and TNA. Then there are just random moments in cutscenes where characters make gestures but say nothing, weird cuts and shots and lots of random silences. It doesnā€™t feel spliced together, feels a bit tacked on.

As for the actual gameplay, again itā€™s below average. Mission designs are uninspired I think - so many defence missions. The one navy mission is hardly naval, its a short stretch across water and done in one battle. We donā€™t get to go to Age 4 until mission 8, and then after that weā€™re once again confined to age 3! I feel they couldā€™ve been more imaginative too; Tenochtitlan (mission 8) is a standout one as they couldā€™ve really pushed the boat with triggers and objectives. Why not have multiple other towns all with different objectives to either assimilate or destroy them. Think Genghis 1 in AOE2. Destroy the docks for one, or the temples for another. One requests you destroy one town and will ally with you, etc. A pick and choose, rather than again just an unimaginative straight-up slog.

It all just very much feels like the campaign was an afterthought - the pantheon itself Iā€™ve only minor gripes with, and well done to the devs. But for the campaign itā€™s just a bit bland, very little flavour and considering how far AOM capabilities has come, very, very little imagination or risk taken. Standard base defence, standard objectives, and weird restrictions like no age 4 for most the missions. All in all just feels tame and bland.

11

Yes, thatā€™s true. At least itā€™s good to have new campaigns so we can compare them to each other and to the originals, and tell the developers ā€œgo this way or that wayā€ in narrative termsā€¦ In AoE 3 it was the same with the historical battles; half of them were about defending your base or attacking your enemies with few troops until you managed to accumulate enough for a final assault on a fortressā€¦ Itā€™s very simplistic, considering that RTS games evolved a lot with WC3, CNC3, RA3, and SC2 in narrative termsā€¦

12

Problem with Atlantis campaign is that all the missions were easy.

I would swap 2nd and 3rd, otherwise I agree with you. I just donā€™t like campaigns that are easy on hardest difficulty.

13

Yes, youā€™re right thereā€¦

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True, here in the game, the logic that prevails is thatā€”ā€œMythological period happened at the same time in all peoplesā€ā€”before the historical period.

In fact, one might wonder if the world of Age of Empires even has a historical period after classical antiquity.

A sequel would be interesting to see how that world evolves with mythical creatures walking around like strange animals in the Middle Agesā€¦ maybe would be as a Age of Empires 4 + mythical creatures:

  • French + Dragons
  • Abbasid + Djinns
  • Chinese + 12 Zodiac spirits.

The Aztecs believed in reincarnation.

Essentially, Itzcoatl and Tlacaelel are versions of ancient leaders from the mythological period who, after their death, would be reincarnated in the future (1427-1440) with the same name and titles, now as tlatoani (emperor) and Tlacochcalcatl (advisor and supreme general).

Well, at least thatā€™s how he justified it to make some sense, since neither of them were actually figures from the mythological period (Before 1300 A.D).

In any case, I prefer to believe that thereā€™s a future for the world of AoM outside the mythological period of antiquity.

At least itā€™s the logic I use for a ā€œFandom Sequelā€ set in the Middle Ages, where the ancient peoples (Greeks, Egyptians) are gone and the ancient gods have killed, sealed, or subjugated them, and Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Confucianism reign supreme.

Under the same AoM world in its Middle Age: Vampires, Zombies, and Werewolves would be a real threat, and dragons would be tamed.

15

Itzcoatl and Talcaelel in campaign ARE based on historical figures from 1427-1440, just read the in-game article.

Tlacaelel was a powerful and influential Aztec noble, military leader, and reformer. Though he never became emperor himself, he served as chief advisor to several Aztec rulers. Tlacaelel helped shape the Aztec Empireā€™s political, military, and religious foundations.

Tlacaelel was a brilliant strategist who strengthened the power of the emperor, restructured the government, and elevated the sun god Huitzilopochtli to the top of the Aztec pantheon. He also promoted the Flower Wars ritual battles used to train warriors and gather captives for sacrifice, emphasizing the role of human sacrifice in sustaining the gods.

Itzcoatl, whose name translates to ā€˜Obsidian Serpentā€™, is as sharp and dark as volcanic glass. He rose from humble beginnings to lead the Mexica people out from beneath the shadow of Tepanec domination. Under his command, the warriors of Tenochtitlan cast off their overlords and, through cunning diplomacy and iron resolve, forged a powerful alliance with Texcoco and Tlacopan. This Triple Alliance became the beating heart of what would soon be known as the Aztec Empire, a power destined to dominate the Valley of Mexico.

Guided by the brilliant and ruthless counsel of his advisor Tlacaelel, Itzcoatl reshaped the very soul of his people. Together they restructured society, elevating warriors and priests as the twin pillars of the new state. In a sweeping act of political alchemy, Itzcoatl ordered the destruction of the old histories to clear the path for a new mythic vision. In their place arose a doctrine of divine purpose, the worship of Huitzilopochtli. As the god of sun and war he was made patron of the empire and represented the destiny of the Mexica.

Through fire and faith, through conquest and creation, Itzcoatl transformed a struggling island city into the nucleus of a civilization that would reshape an entire world.

16

ok finishing the final mission a few thoughts

  • A bit too many timed defenses missions, or atleast they should be spread out more, I think 3 of them came in a row, or some variant of it and it got really tedious to play really fast.
  • The last mission should have been 2 really, they play so differently and the cutscenes were really long
  • the Norse mission was really strange but unique, it felt like certain death there right at the beginning
  • Everything until mission 8 was pretty good, then it ramps up too much IMO
  • Mission 8 Tenochtitlan should have allowed you to get to Mythic cause oh boy that can turn into a stall fest if you are not careful on ludicrous
  • Mission 11 feels really ehā€¦..off, the stuff about rescuing survivors and the other optional objectivesā€¦doesnt work i think and the kinda obvious strategy feels a bit tooā€¦good?? or atleast I didnt think just doing the obvious of spamming warrior priest would nearly instant win it
  • Kamina feels like a plot device and didnt have enough things to do. Probably should have been the primary antagonist for the non mirror missions, starting with the atlantean mission, then greece and then maybe an extra egypt mission

There is a bit of scope creep here, the story is reminiscent of The New Atlantis purely on the fact that its the story of a new founding and i think they tried to mimic that flow, along with going to other lands, but having more civs now means they should have been more selective.

17

Yes, for me Godsworn is an Age of Mythology 2 set in the Middle Agesā€¦

Yes, I think thatā€™s what will happen when they add the Slavs to AoMRā€¦

Yes, thatā€™s why I say the Aztec campaign takes place in the 15th century, specifically in 1415 (if you base it on Itzcoatlā€™s age) or 1429 (if you base it on Tlacaelelā€™s age)ā€¦if it takes place in 1415, that would be 6 years before the Chinese campaign in Age of Empires 3 (1421-1422), 12 years before the creation of the Aztec Empire in 1427, and a century before Moctezumaā€™s campaign in Age of Empires 2 (1517-1521)ā€¦

Yes, in fact the wiki divides the mission into two partsā€¦but they should have been two separate missions to avoid being so longā€¦

Yes, youā€™re right, itā€™s like New Atlantis but without titans and with Aztecs involvedā€¦