This is only partially true. Even back in AoC we had the Chu KoNu and the War Elephant, and it only got qorse with the exoanaion adding conqs and WW. Units that are only built around their raw stats beingbso strong
Coustilliers still seem to have a place, is just not avery interesting one. Its basically the ultimate snowball unit, and better than Paladins when you are in an advantage
Perfectly agree. Yo have really good understanding of how the game works.
Coustilier is maybe the snowballiest unit in the game currently. And even in low numbers they are also extremely strong in raiding, which compensates for the extra investment in the castle.
Whilst with the obuch play you usually have to take some eco damage before you have any chance to a counterplay, as it would be really bad moving out too early with them.
I think that’s important that we see this things in the whole strategic context. It doesn’t does infantry any benefit in just looking at their fighting potential, as infantry play is just more kind of strategical than a clash of units. The obuch are for sure a strong unit, better than the militia line, but this is ofset by the need to build castles to make them which is expensive, delays the rush, gives the opponent informatio about your strategy and an additional win condition (destroying the castles).
And ofc it needs some time for the community to figure out the best strategical choices as you can’t just engage the obuch with your knights as you were used to with the militia line, many people are just not used to have a viable infantry line. I think it’s obvious it just needs time for the community to find a metaplay there.
In general I think that unit should be an exception, but I think it is only good for the strategic diversity of the game to have it in the game. Finally we have a viable infantry unit, please don’t let us nerf it to the ground but look how it influences strategy and gameplay. It doesn’t look like obuch is dominatiing the ladder currently. As long as this is the case I don’t see a reason to nerf it.
The creation time increase is already quite a nerf to the unit.
Not a big issue Castle’s are very easy to afford due to polish eco and Obuchs take 9 seconds which will be increase 12 seconds in the next update. Also if you lose all your castle you have are probably already
You don’t need to lose all castles, you just need to lose those nearer to your opponent. Barracks are easy to rebuild. Castles not so much, and Obuchs are quite slow.
Lmao what? Why would building obuchs require to take eco damage but not coustilliers? And I don’t get the whole raiding stitch, no civ has to wait for a castle to raid anyway.
Isn’t that an argument that applies to most infantry and foot archer UU anyway?
Yes, it was merely a clarification, needed imho because the implied sentence was that you lose all your castles => you’re dead. But you don’t need to be dead to lose enough castles to significantly delay your slow (movement) UUs creation, expecially if you need to replenish them a lot because they’re melee units.
Not that much
Coiustilier has lower PA, lower resistance and lower attack after using the charge attack.
Paladin can continue raiding for a longer time due to the higher PA and HP
More than enough better to say that they have a place in the meta of the civ imo
Exactly that charge attack is what makes coustilier so snowbally. If you don’t have enough numbers of whatever other unit you want to make against it, the coustilier just stomps on you.
Paladin is also quite hard to get to, coustilier are already quite snowbally in castle age, that’s what makes them so dangerous.
Ofc coustilier isn’t the best unit against archers, but even there the charge attack can hav devastating effects. So be aware with archers, if the opponent has a lot of coustiliers he can clean up your archers very fast once engaged, much faster than basically every other unit.
And once coutsitlier won one major engagement, there isn’t much you can do cause they trade even efficient against small numbers of halbs that normally would be enough to fear other cavalry away.
The Obuch is definitely too strong imo for its cost. In those stats aren’t even written the +6 bonus damage vs buildings (pre arson btw) and fast training time (even post-nerf).
Overall, Poles aren’t OP though.
Obuchs still let me feel uneasy, they should get nerfed. Too strong for what they give, it feels unfair compared to most other civs with an infantry UU. Either stats decrease (HP or pierce, both isn’t necessary as the obuch isn’t fast) or gold cost increase.
I think it would be fair to increase the gold ratio of the obuch a bit. But then it would probably become too similar to the trash knight line…
But it’s right for it’s power the gold ratio of the obuch is actually very low, maybe a bit too low. increasing the gold ratio would possibly enable to play infantry against the obuch for many civs.
Coustilliers are extremely good vs archers… the charge attack makes the most difference against units that don’t have much HP in the first place, like crossbowmen/arbalesters. The charge attack is also disproportionately more useful against hit-and-run units like cav archers, as you don’t usually get many hits on them. Compared to the regular knight-line, coustilliers are far better against archers.
I think they need a minor nerf, make it 25 gold should be good.
Obuch is strong for its high HP and low gold cost. Champion cost 20 gold too but Elite Obuch can beat normal champion.
Champions don’t need castles though.
Who cares? Poles can mine 650 stone and get 375 gold in return, making the castle investment almost free, or at least level with an opposing civ investing 175 wood per barracks. Obuch creation time also essentially makes up for requiring a castle.
It’s not overpowered but far too cheap. it’s similar in health and attack to the Teutonic knight but that unit is 85f 40g. the obuch needs to be raised to 35 gold. I doubt any balancing will happen though, the devs intentionally make the DLC overpowered as an incentive to pay to win. Compare this unit with the champion and for 10 more food, it has insane value. plus the creation time is only 12 seconds. I’ve seen players win using only obuch vs every unit because they can amass them so early with their cheap cost and quick creation time. and their civ is made perfectly to exploit this with better farming and gold generation from stone mining, again intentionally pay to win exploit.
You know the creation time of obuch was nerfed heavily? It’s not that easy to mass anymore.
Besides that archers and especially cav archers are strong against obuch. Also Siege (especially scorpions).
Lol they have almost half as much base damage as TKs
If you nerf the Obuch then you need to compensate the Poles somehow, Poles are not even a Tier S civ
I would like to see a nerf in the top civs first, and maybe a buff in some civs, before nerf the Obuch