Even their imperial unique tech is just a disguised elite upgrade for their unique unit.
What can be added to make them more interesting?
14 Likes
Mahouts removed and integrated with the War Elephants. Some type of new UT for Cav Archers sounds great to me.
7 Likes
pls no more cav archer civs, I have fatigue from full Knights into Hussar + CA spam, the fewer civs play like that, the better.
Persians are boring to play but they aren’t too bad, and they have maps where they excel, I wouldn’t stress over buffing them for buffs’ sake.
3 Likes
Make Mahouts free with elite upgrade. Imperial UT gives knight line 15HP/min regeneration.
16 Likes
Aswaran is a good name for the UT.
4 Likes
Tie the +30% speed boost to the unique elite upgrade -
New imperial unique tech which goes hand in hand with sappers and makes the town centers Even Faster.
Town center work rate +80%(x2)
This will give them as an alternative to Spanish supremacy vills by having far more spamability vs other civs of a similar type.
Of course make it expensive enough so it’s not a fast imp grab tech kind of thing.(heavy food cost mainly)
This will also allow the Persians to quickly replace villagers that are lost within a raid in imperial age or even ensure a quicker reboom behind an ally if almost all was lost.
1 Like
I actually think that Persians are a very interesting design, precisely because their design is deep yet simple.
Their design doesn’t need to be more tedious. If anything I’d clean it up even further:
- replace the 50/50 starting resource bonus with +5% faster TCs in the dark age, so that the bonus reads +5/10/15/20% faster TC in dark/feudal/castle/imperial age.
- redesign the WE from scratch
- If the WE was properly designed (not using massive bonus damage from halbediers to compensate for the unit being too pop efficient) the Mahouts UT could grant monk resistance to the UU.
3 Likes
I agree that Persians are too bland right now. Not only that, but they don’t really feel like they represent Middle Ages Persia all that well. I’ll give credit for Kamandaran, as that does something unique, but the rest of this civ is very dull.
One way I would like to see this changed is by leaning into Persians old strength of having a wide stable tech tree, and giving them Steppe Lancers (a unit that would not be out of place for them) and then changing Mahouts for a UT that buffs Steppe Lancers & Cavalry Archers. I am not sure why the successors to the Parthians have not got access to the equivalent of at least fully upgraded Cavalry Archers (I can understand why they don’t have bracer, but nothing helping Cavalry Archers compensate for it is weird considering the importance horse archery plays in Iranian culture).
Back to Mahouts…I do not like unique techs that just boost the unique unit. It should either be on the unit already, or be packaged with the elite upgrade. Just feels like a tax.
Oh, and they should have the Central Asian architecture. Those blue domes are even known as “Persian domes”.
10 Likes
Well, maybe yes, maybe not.
SL belongs to the peoples on the Steppe.
If the Eastern Iranic peoples (living on the Steppe) become a new civilization, maybe named Sogdians, in the future, then SL should belong to the Sogdians, not the Persians (living on the Iranian plateau) representing the Western Iranic peoples.
Agree.
This is a very interesting observation. I thought that every civ had 5 bonuses, 2 UTs and 1 team bonus for some reason. After looking a bit more, this doesn’t seem to be true at all. There are civs like Poles, Slavs and Mongols which have only 3 civ bonuses, all the Indian civs (Bengalis, Dravidians, Gurjaras and Hindustanis) have 4 civ bonuses, and civs like Turks and Byzantines have 5 bonuses. It’s all over the place.
4 Likes
My reasoning for the Steppe Lancer was more due to the Steppe influences in the Persian military during and after the Parthian Empire. Sassanid cavalry for example heavily resemble Steppe Lancers.
2 Likes
Teutons even have six.
Which is alot, but i think the amount of Boni is not as important as how strong each one is.
For some civs two are fine and for others six is fine.
11 Likes
I think that’s even a nerf for the civ. Rn persians are at least great on hybrid maps partly because of extra starting res. If you remove these and apply tc bonus in dark age persians effectively will be up later feudal age instead of being faster.
Well the numbers of bonusea doesn’t really matter tbf. For example persians main bonus could easily be split up into two bonuses, one for faster tcs and one for dock especially as the latter compromises all military units for water. Heck you can even make it 4 bonuses and say faster tcs, faster war ship production, faster fishing ship production, more hp on tc/dock. I mean look at teutons: Half of their bonuses probably are more niche than having more hp on tcs for persians. In short, the way bonuses are bundled or split is totally arbitrary.
5 Likes
mahout for free and give them back that useless boiling oil tech from way back
2 Likes
I agree with both your points. It could even get more extreme. A bonus like “all foot archers ignore pierce armour” would be so stupidly broken that a civ wouldn’t need anything else for it to be OP.
But I figured out where my misconception came from. There is a video by Spirit of the Law where he builds new civ’s based on previous ones to be as overpowered as possible. He uses the combination I mentioned above for that. So, I thought that was the standard number for all civs. Here it is, if you want to check it out.
1 Like
And Teutons have like 8 bonuses.
1 Like
- Bringing back the dark age bonus of 5% faster tc and dock. The hp bonus of docks can be removed for hybrid and water balance.
- War elephant’s base speed gets adjusted and some new imperial age UT that gives some extra ability on knight-line like charge attack or dodge 1 melee hit or extra hp or some totally new mechanism.
OR
Neither of the above two but a new unique unit in range or stable or a unique building inspired from history that can help the civ make use of their tc bonus better to boom.
Exactly the ones that Poles or Hindustanis have, are super powerful compared to something like Cumans or Vietnamese.
- Monks can heal two units at once
This would be an interesting bonus because their Monastery is quite lackluster currently. And don’t worry, it wouldn’t be broken, because the second unit would be healed at half or even a third the rate of the first one.
- Cavalry archers +1 attack vs cavalry
This one would greatly help Persian cav archers hit and run cavalry, and could also protect War Elephants from camels as well.
- Bloodlines, Husbandry free
This one is pretty self-explanatory.
The monks bonus seems soo random, War ele + cav archer is just sooo expensive to get, the bonus is not significant (basically bracer without the range).
But free bloodlines??? Do you realize how that strong are Franks in early feudal with the extra HP and two eco bonuses (and I want the HP bonus moved to castle age) and now give a civ with fsster working TCs free bloodlines (that is already the franks bonus) so they become too oppresive in feudal scout wars? Then also free husbandry? (Which is already the Cumans bonus).
1 Like
The reason they need the extra resources is to afford constant villager production. Without it, you will have TC idle time and you might as well not have 5% faster TC in dark age.
One way to make the civ feel more unique is to make the TC bonus flat 20% starting from Feudal. This will require more food in Feudal and Castle which will affect what units Persians can go for, but it will also create a significant vill difference sooner which will make up for their lackluster imperial age.
I agree free bloodlines+husbandry is OP, but free bloodlines alone is more complicated on Persians. Yes, persian scouts will be very strong, but they cannot take full advantage of it because Persians have to spend more food to take advantage of their TC bonus, which restricts the number of scouts they can make. It could still be OP, but I am not sure.
Persian Imperial age is quite generic (excluding trash bows which are much worse than FU arbalest till you run out of gold) so they need to win before that without getting a long term advantage. Free bloodlines could work for this.