The problems I’ve summarized since World’s Edge took over Age of Empires IV.

It seems that since around 2019, the main studio responsible for the development and operation of Age of Empires IV has been World’s Edge. I won’t comment on how they’ve handled other games, but since 2021, the problems with AoE4 have become increasingly clear. Here’s my own summary:

1. Poor technical optimization
The engine has always been underwhelming, a problem that goes back to AoE4’s early development under Relic. But the real issue is this: three years later, World’s Edge has still not delivered any substantial improvements. Performance remains stuck at the initial level—unstable framerates, excessive memory usage, slow load times. It seems they haven’t invested any real resources into solving these fundamental issues, preferring instead to cover them up or avoid them entirely.

2. Gameplay and design problems
AoE4 launched under the banner of “civilization asymmetry,” promising to distinguish itself from its predecessors by emphasizing uniqueness. But through years of tinkering and endless adjustments, that uniqueness has been eroded. On the surface, civilizations look different, but in practice, combat feels nearly identical. By now, unit differences and strategic choices are so shallow that what remains is largely cosmetic. The “skin” of each civ may differ, but the “bones” are all the same—hollowed out, with only visual distinctions left.
And here we are in 2025, with the population cap still at 200. Doesn’t this show that World’s Edge never intended to address the AI and engine limitations that prevent higher caps? Going above 200 causes severe pathing bugs in unit formations, though single-unit AI movement works fine. This is a basic issue that has existed for years—why hasn’t it been fixed?

3. Lack of battlefield atmosphere and gameplay depth
Combat feedback is weak, the battlefield lacks atmosphere, pacing is monotonous, and gameplay feels mechanical. Map design—once the soul of RTS—has become increasingly formulaic, dominated by symmetrical, “esports-friendly” layouts. This design choice has hollowed out the strategic depth of the game, stripping away the variety and enjoyment that RTS should offer.

4. Broken AI logic
The AI is nearly unusable when it comes to pathfinding and logic. The most notorious example is the pilgrim issue: they only walk in straight lines. Even if a sacred site is on a hill, they’ll get stuck at the base rather than finding an alternate path. This perfectly illustrates the AI’s fundamental flaws. Some claim this is “map-dependent,” but that only proves maps have to compensate for bad AI—it doesn’t excuse the fact that the AI itself is broken.

5. Low update frequency and poor quality
Patches arrive late, long-standing issues remain unfixed, and new content is scarce to the point of content drought. Community feedback is either ignored or addressed months later with token fixes. The pace and quality of development are shockingly low—hardly what you’d expect from a studio under Microsoft.

6. Unprofessional balancing
Balance changes swing wildly—either overdone or inadequate—with no long-term vision. Worse, World’s Edge seems to have no coherent philosophy for balance. They patch reactively: some civs are nerfed into uselessness, while others dominate unchecked. The result is a cycle of imbalance that repeats endlessly.

7. Severe DLC homogenization
DLCs have become increasingly repetitive, heavily reliant on asset reuse and reskins. These so-called “new factions” are little more than recycled content cobbled together. Core gameplay and quality are diluted with each release. What looks like “new content” is really just superficial repackaging. Instead of extending the game’s lifespan, this practice accelerates its hollowing out.

8. No roadmap or commitments
To this day, World’s Edge has never provided a clear, long-term roadmap. They ignore core player demands: UI improvements, combat feedback, meaningful map design, even basic map details like vegetation. The production quality has fallen so far that many maps are barren—empty terrain with no foliage—far below the standard seen at launch. These issues have never been taken seriously. I honestly don’t know what they’re doing, but it raises serious questions about their resource allocation and project management.

9. Lack of innovation and accountability
World’s Edge shows no vision, no creativity, and no sense of responsibility. They have built no meaningful technical foundation. The so-called “variant civilization DLCs” are nothing but low-cost, short-term cash grabs designed for maximum profit with minimum effort. They keep milking scraps, draining player patience while never considering long-term development or brand reputation. This approach is not only short-sighted—it’s self-destructive.


Of course, things wouldn’t have gotten this bad without certain segments of the AoE4 community—the so-called “fanboy loyalists.” For years, their blind praise and flattery have enabled World’s Edge’s complacency, short-sightedness, and self-indulgence. Their unconditional support has normalized mediocrity and allowed the game to reach this sorry state.

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It actually got posted! I thought my post would just get swallowed up.

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That’s a security measure by the system. New players who immediately post something must be manually approved by us.

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The red flags had been there since they made the first variants. People defended it fiercely. Then they sold two variants at full price. People defended it even more fiercely. Now they sold four variants and no sp contents at an even higher price.

Those people already politely and impolitely asked us “haters” to leave.

Maybe we should. So that the yesmen can live together happy ever after. And their best-company-ever WE will continue to dump cheaper and cheaper stuff at higher and higher price and they’d still donate money to them. Pretty sustainable huh?

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I feel correcting you might be a wasted effort given how you end your post attacking community members described as “fanboy loyalists”, but substantial improvements have occurred since the first Christmas after release (when the issues plaguing edge panning were improved - and then again in a subsequent patch).

We also got better shadows in Season . . . 5? I think it was. Better terrain rendering too (with performance gains). Better water with Sultan’s Ascend. These things necessitate performance improvements to keep performance where it was prior to the update. Maybe you don’t notice it because of this.

Personally, I wish AoE got more investment from Microsoft, instead of stretching out whatever budget they have into seeing how far the game can do mostly on its own merits. Most updates cater to the competitive community, and the modding tools have been left as Beta (with basically few / no changes) since AoE IV was released.

I think the devs are making more and more complicated variants, stretching out what they can do with existing assets (and some new things per-variant) as far as they can without having to commit to things like new audio, and so on. I think your characterisation of them is as reactionary as it is unfair, but it’s a valid opinion, so.

For all the problems MS seems to have in investing in AoE in general. I don’t think blaming the players for that does any good. I don’t think it really matters one iota what anyone says on this forum, so far as whoever holds the purse strings goes. YMMV.

The Crucible is SP content, no?

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You know the worst part?

You had worked in a corporate. I had too.
You and I both should know all the corpo shit of overpromising, bait and switch, hype marketing, minimum viable product, and all the fancy euphemisms for them etc.

I know it’s my job. It sucks. But I need to make a living. I’m not moralizing it.

Yet instead of even acknowledging its existence, you chose to lure more people into it. Even when it’s not even part of your job (sus).

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I chose to post on the official website’s community because I’ve been holding this in for a long time and needed to vent. Another reason is that the Age of Empires IV Steam community barely has any normal people left; most have left, and those who remain are all “hardcore superfans.” The atmosphere is terrible, and almost no one is willing to have a serious discussion about anything.

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Same here. Right above you.

“One rougelite mode is sp! What are you even complaining about?”

I have no idea what you’re going on about.

The Crucible looks to be SP content, yes or no?

It’s not a campaign. But it is SP content. Trying to frame it as not being SP content because it’s not SP content you’re interested in (or whatever reason is causing you to frame it as not “proper” content) is being disingenuous.

The funny thing is, I share the same criticism around not offering new non-variant civilisations (despite them, uh, also not being single-player content). I think the developers should add them. I have mentioned this in every public poll they’ve done.

I don’t think you want to go down the route of making up things people never said.

If you want to complain about a lack of campaigns, complain about that. Don’t complain about a lack of SP content and then distort the truth when someone points out that SP content is coming down the pipe.

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Ask yourself before yesterday if “one rougelite mode” comes up top 10 on the list of “sp contents” for this game, let alone being the only one.

The problem of many things is not themselves but being the only. Variants were never a problem in Sultans Ascend. Yet the better-designed ones later were received more poorly because they were all that DLC offers at a much higher price.

Next time I can add one additional pause and screenshot button in sp and it is still sp content.

AOE3 promised a “QoL” patch. It only comes with a few volume adjustments. No one is arguing “hey but it is QoL”. Because people have spines or conscience or common moral standards
It sucks. Period.

Yet you are more enthusiastic about nitpicking the words of “those who share the same criticism” instead of outspeaking the same criticism to not hurt WE’s fee-fees

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What am I, psychic?

I like the look of the Crucible. You . . . don’t? I dunno, you haven’t said.

Was I expecting it? Not at all. So what? Does that mean it won’t be good?

I’m a single-player gamer, generally. I like single-player content, as a rule. I don’t always like it, I don’t like it all, but that’s what I prefer when it comes to a lot of games.

I also think the devs should expand (and refine) the Art of War missions. I’m open to more campaigns, even if I think they need to be cost-effective.

If you’re saying “the Crucible isn’t enough SP content to make people wanting more SP content happy”, then for the love of all that’s holy, say that. Don’t say obvious nonsense like “now they’re selling four variants and no sp contents”. They’re selling four variants and SP content. If that’s not worth it for you, don’t spend the money! Yeesh.

If you can’t handle “nitpicking” when you say something factually-incorrect, then you don’t want a discussion. Which is fine, but why post in them then? :laughing:

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You intentionally ignored the only part even if I bold it. Fine. That’s your job. I’m not using my part-time hobby to compete with someone who makes it for a living.

That’s why AOE3 is doomed
They don’t have one very wise sage telling everyone who sHare tHE sAMe CrTicISM “but there is one QoL” instead of making that very criticsm

You can speak as much euphemism as you like. But your actual action always leak your intention. Mind you.

On my part, I think I had made it very clear that:
I am done with WE’s bullshit
I don’t want conversation with WE’s shills. I’m politely asking them to leave

First, regarding performance: I’m not talking about graphics quality, visual optimization, or frame-rate improvements. The issues I’m referring to originate from the Relic engine itself, yet World’s Edge has made no real effort to address them. Even if the game is installed on an SSD, it doesn’t suddenly load faster. Some of the underlying problems in the code aren’t the things you mentioned. Additionally, if you examine the current map designs, you’ll notice that vegetation and terrain are becoming increasingly bare, unattractive, and ugly—not more beautiful or natural. You might think I haven’t noticed some things, but I’m confident you may not have noticed the irregular triangular terrain blocks on mountaintops or hilltops. This problem began after World’s Edge took over; the original version’s hills and peaks were smooth.

I also need to correct one defamatory point. When I mentioned the “fanboy loyalist group,” I was referring to certain players, not all. That is a fact. However, your interpretation seems to assume I meant that all players are part of this group and are obstructing the game’s improvement. I find that a very strange interpretation. You can criticize me, but you cannot fabricate something out of nothing.

I haven’t discussed community and mod issues here because I’ve mentioned them many times before and don’t wish to repeat myself. I have stated more than once that World’s Edge’s handling of the modding community has been very poor—but nobody listened.

Regarding increasingly complex variants: this is obvious and inevitable. It’s not something to be praised; it’s a basic necessity. A variant, by definition, must copy and modify existing factions and assets. This is not creation—it’s risk-averse opportunism. Because of this copy-and-modify approach, variants have to appear more complex, to make players think the studio isn’t slacking. But the more complex the variant, the more patchwork it becomes, requiring active thinking to arrange and deploy, while simultaneously encouraging unnecessary and “clever” mechanics. Is this really a good thing? Look at the prices, the assets used, and the actual design and mechanics. Take the so-called Golden Horde variant: it’s supposedly very different from the Mongols, yet all they did was make the Golden Horde non-nomadic. This isn’t the first time World’s Edge has done this—they lack originality. What they do is always copy, paste, then modify. We have to accept that. You may think you are rational and objective, but from my perspective, you’re clearly overlooking many things.

Finally, when I refer to “long-term construction,” I mean sustainable, long-term operation. If the studio truly believes that forum feedback has no influence on them, then World’s Edge and Microsoft could just close all forums and operate entirely within their own development circle, controlling the narrative themselves. According to your logic, if what you say were really feasible, DOW3 would be a perfect counterexample: pre-release feedback from players to Relic had no impact, and Relic didn’t need to consider market or forum opinions—the result was already determined. DOW3 failed. Even if you asked Microsoft now, they wouldn’t affirm your viewpoint, even superficially. If all forum feedback, player opinions, and mod interactions for AoE4 were cut off, AoE4 would have already failed.

From the perspective of development budget control, even if AoE4 is currently in a poor state, are competitive players the ones controlling the budget? If not, why does World’s Edge need to heed their advice? This already has a tangible impact on the development of the game itself.

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World’s Edge is to Age of Empires what 343 is to Halo.

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Again, you’re speaking nonsense and / or in riddles

I’m always here for any good faith, constructive argument. Even disagreement. But all you offer are attacks and insults. You can’t accept that somebody might like the Crucible. That it might be worth money.

You have to undermine and attack something that isn’t even out yet, because you personally don’t consider it valuable. It’s very weird. What motivates you to do any of this?

Why can’t we just have a civil exchange where you say “I don’t like the look of it and I don’t think the DLC is good value”, and I say “I wish we didn’t just get variants, but I’m excited for the Crucible” and we agree to disagree like grown-ups?

Why is that kind of thing so difficult?

The game doesn’t load faster, but does it load slower? Is this something you’ve kept tabs on? Because I haven’t. But I know the game has significantly more content in it than at release. So if it’s not loading slower, maybe optimisations have still happened. Impossible to say.

What I will say is that people have asked for more detail in maps for a long time. Whatever the reasons are, these haven’t manifested much (some minor updates here and there, like animated banners on buildings). A lot of things haven’t changed since release. Some things have. This is generally the way it goes for any game.

I haven’t noticed what you have noticed on newer maps, but I’ll be honest, it’s not something I’m looking out for. Maybe they’re bugs. Maybe they’re because things are being rushed. World’s Edge is the publisher. They always have been. They don’t actually do the development. They have Forgotten Empires for that (and a few other studios I think). And they still have Relic, who are listed on the latest DLC.

I’m trying to understand why you think World’s Edge took over at a certain point, and then things got worse. World’s Edge have always been in charge, and the budget they have decides how much effort they can spend on supporting products in the franchise. I think that’s probably the main problem. The game won’t have as much budget assigned as it did on release. Maybe the franchise has a pool of it, and that’s gotten smaller. I have no idea.

I don’t like it, if that helps. I consider AoE IV a success, with solid user reviews and a stable concurrent playerbase (and apparently good sales). I don’t get why it seems to be strung along as much as it has been. I certainly don’t want to defend the seeming lack of investment.

It’s hard to understand what players you mean, when you refer in aggregate to an unspecified group. As you can see, there are existing posters who would happily lump me and other posters into that group, and do regularly. This isn’t at all anything to do with you, it’s not your fault, it’s just context.

Everyone likes to think that they’re rational and objective. I take a different approach. Everyone is subjective, even when they’re trying to be objective. And people should try to be objective, but recognise that an inherent part of being human is to not be.

For me, a variant with more effort put in, is a better result than a variant with less effort put in. Maybe you don’t like variants at all. Maybe you want brand-new civilisations. That’s absolutely fine. I don’t even disagree with that.

The developers still have to be creative, it’s just that creativity is within a (considerably) tighter set of constraints. Making a new unit in a variant civilisation is as creative as making a new unit within a new civilisation (assuming art resources are available and you can make it look new). But overall the amount of creativity is lower, because the civilisation already exists. Is that a reasonable argument? Do you agree, or disagree?

Pre-release feedback on DoW III actually had impact. The game still didn’t do well, nomatter what the developers did (vastly toning down squad wipe abilities - that happened on release, removing Skull unlocks - that happened too late, focusing on maps, adding community changes to models like helmeted versions, and so on).

The lesson they learned is that they should involve the community earlier. That’s why they did exactly that for AoE IV and CoH 3. CoH 3 had issues in being released too early, completely independently of any community feedback (because everyone said the same thing). The release timing tends to be a publisher thing. Which at the time was SEGA.

But what we’re talking about here seems to be higher-up than that. It’s not at the studio level. I’m saying the people who make these kinds of decisions don’t visit here and don’t get the feedback that comes from here. They might not even be listening to the developers themselves. I don’t know. I do know our feedback here gets to the developers. Believe me or not. Therefore, there must be another reason why things go as they do.

I wish I knew. Maybe the upfront cost is too much for risk-averse purse holders. Maybe this way they can manage their hundreds (and thousands) of layoffs so the company’s financials look better (in the short term) by making sure any given team (not just World’s Edge or its contractors) is running as lean as possible.

Plenty of guesses. Some of them uncharitable maybe, some of them pragmatic given what I know of the state of the industry. None of them, imo, defensible, but that gets political for me very quickly. The sad fact is companies need to make a profit, and they do this in increasingly brazen ways. These decisions are made far, far above the heads of any developer actually working on this game (or possibly even World’s Edge, entirely), so I tend to disassociate the two.

Does this make me overly-thankful for the support the game gets? Possibly. Depends on my mood, and it depends on the update in question. I’ve been a bit fed up recently because the updates are more and more MP-focused, and the mod tools remain as they are. The new DLC has me excited for the Crucible, will have to wait to see more of that in action.

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What happened to “putting words into other’s mouth”?

I can’t accept that somebody brands it as a great deal living up to most people’s expectations
It could be fine on its own. I’d even play it. But not when it is the only and barely sp content offered in a full prized DLC.

Ask any person on the street what they’d expect from “sp contents of a major expansion of a historical RTS”. There is a very solid expectation.

Simply calling this cheap thing “offering sp contents ” without any further description naturally evokes that expectation and can sell lots of people on that. Better just call it none for convenience. That’s borderline false marketing. Of course they won’t lie to everyone’s faces but we all know they are intentionally twitching the definition of “sp contents” for their own benefit

Don’t pretend you don’t. You do.

I offer truth behind WE shills’ gaslighting.
Shills are not protected by Geneva. BTW.

Gorb you know exactly who they are talking about. People are angry and can’t direct their anger at the developers (because they don’t respond directly). So people who are dissatisfied have decided to lump all of their angst onto people they disagree with.

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I said, you might not want to start doing that. You continued! Regardless, when you speak in cryptid allusions, or call people shills, at some point I have to assume.

I assumed as constructively as I could. I could assume far less constructive motivations, but that’d get us nowhere. It’s pointless for me to do something like that, and the older I get, the less I let myself fall into that trap.

Ask yourself. Stop asking made-up invented fictional people. Stop projecting your opinion.

You’re calling it “barely SP”. This is your opinion. Don’t moan that I’m putting words into your mouth when you’re trying to undermine the fact that the Crucible is SP content.

“SP content” doesn’t mean “whatever FocalPenny has decided it means”. It means single-player content. Content that can be played by a single player. I don’t care if you don’t think it’s big enough. I don’t care that you think it “barely” qualifies as SP content. That’s just like, your opinion, man. I respect it. You’re allowed to have this opinion, as different as it is from mine.

But stop telling me I’m wrong just because you think it’s cheap and not what you expect from the “sp content of a major expansion of a historical RTS”. Nobody should be forced to agree with you. Nobody is lesser for not doing so.

No, I won’t.

The Crucible is SP content, and I’m very glad we’re getting something. I haven’t made up my mind on what value it provides. It could be great. It could be less than great. We do not know at this point.

I’m not going to judge it prematurely. I’m not going to judge it at all until I know more. It’s one of the reasons I never pre-order anything anymore.

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Go and make a poll at any place without conflict of interest and ask what they’d expect from “sp contents of a historical RTS game” then tell everyone it’s their own opinion.

“The game is medieval” is also someone’s opinion. Let them add the Galactic Empire next. I bet you’d still be licking their boots.

It is not.

I know you and your buddies are billionaires. Unfortunately I don’t have as much money to spare. I need to make a living and care more about my breakfast rather than some other billionaire’s.
I’m not buying this insincere and low effort shit for its price.

And I’m pathetically shallow. Unlike you with higher taste. I see low efforts. I don’t buy it.
Civ 7 sold DLC civs with no unique models. I didn’t buy. Don’t tell me how much effort was put into designing the gameplay (there isn’t). I won’t buy it. The moment they added unique models and offered a discount, I bought it.
(Oh by the way “civs had to have unique models” is also mY oPiNiON. Tell Firaxis to trash anyone who dares think that way)

Edit: and since V&V, WE does not hold the impression of “someone who will put genuine efforts into making something very NEW good and worthy” to me. No. They would try something “new” only when they want quick money with fewer efforts. Entirely their fault.

“go and make a poll somewhere where I think the results will favour me” isn’t how you collect data, eh?

Like, what are you trying to prove? That players want more campaigns? That players want different SP content?

Just say directly what you mean, without resorting to silly fallacies and name-calling. Look at how you come across, for a second.

And I’ve got a better idea. Make a poll wherever you want, and ask “is the Crucible single-player content”. Feel free to link to the DLC or provide an actual, fair summary of what the content is. See what the answers say.

It’s single-player content. Maybe it isn’t single-player content you want. Maybe it isn’t single-player content anyone wants. Maybe the optics are already skewed because it’s only coming with variants. Who knows. You see what you want to see.

Now you’re being a bit more honest.

You said you’d keep paying for campaigns. So spare me, yeah? You’ve decided that the Crucible is garbage and not worth your time. You’ve decided I have money to spare despite the fact I said I haven’t made up my mind on the new DLC and I don’t pre-order.

Let’s agree to disagree. Let’s see if you can manage that :slight_smile:

I was never here to convince you to like it. All I can say is what I’ve said before: SP content you don’t like is still SP content. That’s it. Have a good rest of your day.

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