The reason why goths are bad (+buff ideas)

[LordPatito8258]

Yeah, but Tartars are underpowered for a different reason. His eco bonus isn’t bad. It’s just they don’t have anything for them until imperial age

[phoenix1089]

From experience i haven’t seen any decent CA players struggle kiting huskarls. I admit goths aren’t useless in those situations, same for how they can fight other factions champions by sheer numbers. I was just pointing out an area they can struggle in, i stil won my last game vs mongols but it sure wasnt easy and we basically had to 2v1 him. Serviceable skirms is an option, same for onagers (which i usually revert to as it requires less teaching than skirms)

[BelatedLemur1]

@Szebo210

Malays have elephants which may be weak compared to other elephants but not compared to other units. Goths don’t have elephants which means their only option is spamming weak units, which is definitely a huge weakness in late imperial age when there is a housecap (that’s why they need a buffed and balanced version of the +10 popluation space bonus), and that’s why need plate mail armor atleast. Look at mayans, they nearly have them same discount, but their archers are FU and they even have a +6 attack bonus vs building for arbalests. They might not have perfusion, but that’d be too strong for ranged units anyways.

Either more pop(+20%) or keep the 10+ pop + add Plate Mail Armor would be nice.

[Dbuen]

Reworking the Militia line would be far better for Goths than any civ specific infantry buff, I think. Something is a little strange when almost every infantry civ shouldn’t make more than 3 - 5 Militia/MaA and then never touch Militia again until late Imperial trash fights.

I like the idea of expanding the Militia/MaA niche as “Best early unit in Feudal.” to “Best early unit in every age.” I think I’d be okay with swordsmen eventually losing to archers and knights as a given age goes on if swordsmen were much better at doing consistent and cost-effective early damage throughout a whole match. To achieve this, I’ve heard it might be done by moving up almost every Militia line upgrade one age. Man-at-Arms is researchable in Dark Age, Long Swordsman in Feudal, Two-Handed Swordsman in Castle, and Champion stays in Imperial. How the upgrade costs and base unit stats should balance out, I don’t know. But it would give early tier upgrades to the Militia line as a unique unit gimmick.

Replacing Supplies with a free and automatic food discount with an age up to Feudal might also be a necessary buff for all non-Goth civs. I don’t know what bonus Slavs should get to replace free Supplies. But seeing Slavs sometimes go for extended MaA play in Feudal because of free Supplies definitely shows a free Feudal Age food discount for Militia is a key component to making prolonged swordsman play viable for more civs.

I’d rather have all of this, than a 35% Dark Age discount for Goths.

[bigbossbro08]

Just give an eco bonus. Please stop pushing M@A bonus further. They have more than they need to.