The Stupid Tatars Buff, not weak but it is wrong!

how are they wrong?
what’s the weak point of tatars - getting to castle age.
this helps them with that. they don’t need castle age buffs they already have all the tools they need in castle age.

But they are strong enough in early game with +50% food on sheeps! Giving them more food is not a solution, and actually Tatars is one of the best civs in scout rush

yes, a civ that struggles in dark and feudal age getting a buff to help them get to castle age is totally wrong.
you’re absolutely right equalizer, we should buff tatars when they are already strong. how could we be so blind as to think they need to be fixed when they are weak instead of buffing there good point!?!?!

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Yeah this is what i mean, give them something in their castle not more food in feudal, like give them flame camels or 50% faster training time for their CA os something like that

https://aoestats.io/civ/Tatars/RM_1v1/1650+

stats say otherwise. tatars are extremely weak in the early game and only getting better between 20 and 30 minutes. that weak early game is holding them back. but hey, stats must be wrong! i mean we only have months and months of data.

And how giving them 2 sheeps in feudal gonna change that?! It is still the same build but more food and more time to have wood, but they are already have 50% on sheeps, before this patch you can go feudal and still have sheeps even after you hit feudal!

300 extra FREE food and they get to delay farms and ensure they get farm tech up. furthermore if you want proof how good it is, go watch the video i posted above where viper literally made it to castle age and researched heavy plow before throwing down farms. thats a HUGE boost.

and now you can delay it even longer, allowing you to invest that wood elsewhere. like say…making it to castle age and dropping TCs before you even get farms rolling. go watch teh video. you couldn’t do that BEFORE.

stats don’t lie equalizer, tatars have a fairly bad dark/feudal age.

I watched and i said yes it is a strong bonus for booming, and Viper reached the castle age in 13 min man, so he already still have tons of food, so having a heavy plow and 2 TCs is not that big surprise because you really can do this in the old patch with their +50% food and luring the deers in the same time, so you have +(140×3 deers+ 50%food×8 sheeps)= 820 food in the old patch without a single farm, without even the bushes!

let’s ignore the food you need for villagers, the food you need for dark age, the food you need for eco upgrades and pretend this is totally doable before patch. 20 villagers is 1000 food alone…another 500 for dark age, another 175 for double bit axe and the first farm upgrade.
oops. you forgot those.

Yeah i am with you, but this will still depend on your time on castle,14,15,16min and on your build order…my main point in the topic is that buffing a civ that have a strong food eco by giving them more food doesn’t make any sense!
I will give you an example, lets say Celts are weak and we want to buff them, so what will we do? Give them +10% work rate on wood, but actually they are already strong on wood with thier free +15% faster on wood! Did you understand what i mean? Buffing the civ in it’s strong point is not a solution because it is actually good in that position! If you want to buff a civ, give it a buff on it’s weak position not in the strong one!

except clearly the bonus they have is not enough to get them trhough, seeing as the stats literally say they suck before castle.

you got to take more into acount then that. when are they weak, why are they weak?
why would i buff a civ like tatars, who struggles in the early game, a buff in castle age. is that going to help them where they are struggling?
you literally say that food isn’t there problem and then what do you do?
go and propose 50% food savings on eco buffs. wth?

and the stats say tatars weak point is not castle age, its early game. so yeah. castle age buffs? useless.

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Yet you still can buff them in feudal/dark but not in sheeps, you can give them bonus on eco techs like they did to ports and bulgars and even koreans for their blacksmith free upgrades

ports eco bonus does nothing for them early game wise. not much anyway.
the problem with tatars was never there units. it was there eco. they get one eco bonus and it played out early. now it has a more lasting impact. its agood change. just becauSe you don’t like it means nothing.

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If tatats had been released with this bonus, would you have any problems with this bonus?
I would have with cumans capped rams (now I know that its not so OP as it seems), but i wouldnt have any issues with tatars being sheep focused.

In fact, i would have played them more than cumans…

Tatar buff was unneeded but not because the buff should have been something else.

They were fine, now they’re better than fine, and I guess that’s fine, I just don’t think they needed any help.

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win-rates and tournament usage completely disagree.

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Ok, so what bonus would you give them instead?

its in his post right at the bottom

tournament usage in arabia only and arena only tournaments, maps where the elevation isn’t a focal point of the map. tournaments where the game balance was intentionally compromised just for the theme.

my shock and my disbelief is unmeasurable.

Arabia has the most hills of any competitive maps and the KotD generation had even more hills.

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