Turn off the entire forum maybe? Silo people so that they cannot spread their nonsense 
I’m kidding.
I like that buff on sheep. But I hope Silk Armor take back to +1PA,
Tatars are already strong civ in post-imp except few matchup. give +1MA more for their Hussar is too much and overpowered.
Or just give +2MA for Steppe Lancer. Not Hussar, already too good for trash unit.
it would be too similar to india and turk civ traits… thats why i assume the difference… tatars would be paying for a tech that gives “less” to a unit (even though its to more unit types)
1 Like
im glad i blocked this guy… i think ill keep the block in place judging by the number of people who argued with him… clearly he is too clever for the rest of yall…
3 Likes
I’m sorry you believe being told that your opinion on what should matter for balance doesn’t matter is ad hominem. Frankly speaking, blocks exist for those with sensitivity, and I do encourage using them when something hits a nerve. Strictly speaking, if you want to make the claim that the Tatars are bad based off a rubric that you control yourself, literally nothing anyone can say will change your mind.
If I wanted to make the argument that Persians are flat-out busted and my supposition was entirely based on the persians having infinite food, gold, and stone, and I made that point continuously regardless of what other people are likely to say, that “this isn’t how the game is normally played, and it shouldn’t be, and in the average state of the game, persians are fine” or “who is this clown” then literally nobody would be capable of changing my mind, because my mindset has a presupposition that preempts fair argumentation and criticism.
The “Arabia is the standard” position is the presupposition which prevents fair argumentation and if you don’t like me telling you to leave your presuppositions as to what matters about balance aside and debate on the facts at hand, you’re more than welcome to not engage my arguments. That’s what a block is for. Don’t get spiteful about it.
In overwatch, they removed the downvotes because of that. Now, there is only likes, and flags to report offensive posts.
Many people use downvotes as flags, when different opinions, if tjey are not offenssive, should be listened and respected
2 Likes
I blame people for the removal (or omission) of downvote.
I explained before that “standard” and “most popular” are not mutally exclusive, rather, they are strongly correlated: If something is a standard, it usually becomes very popular, and if something is really popular, it often becomes the new standard.
Your point about settings is actually GREAT. Because it really shows me what your problem is: You conflate the NAME “standard” (in the settings) with the FUNCTION of a standard:
The standard is the usual case; the thing that is assumed to be the framework if no framwork was defined; the baseline everything gets compared to etc.
Now, why is your point about “standard” (the name in the settings) so amazingly good? Because in AOK, 1.0 speed was called “standard” (EDIT: If memory serves. Might have been called “normal” too). But it wasn’t the standard, was it? Maybe single player games were played at 1.0, but that didnt matter to the community. The community played at 1.7 speed - which was called “faster”. If you would search for a game online on 1.0 speed, you would need to explcitly write that, but if you were looking 1.7 speed, that didn’t even need to be mentioned - because it was the standard.
So over the years, the community developed a standard, regardless of Microsofts names for the settings. And, to top it all of, 1.7 speed is now renamed into “normal”. It just goes to show how “most popular” became standard. Just like it did for Arabia.
2 Likes
To come back to the OP, apparently you don’t like the Tatars buff because you think they had enough additional food before that. Fair enough, but I don’t get how your propositions are much better.
Fair enough, it would make them more usable but I don’t think it would make the civ that much better.
Two ways it can impact the civ in castle age: either Tatars don’t have the eco to spam an unit that expensive that fast , which means you can’t sustain the production, which ruins the point of faster TT, or they do, and then you reach the mass of CA necessary to beat knights super fast, but with free thumb ring it sounds too strong.
In Imp it’s free steppe husbandry on HCA that have more range, attack and armour than Cuman HCA, sounds really problematic.
Lastly, if more food doesn’t help Tatars, why would “more CA” help too?
Worse than Vietnamese buff, and sounds like it’s just another way to give them “more food”
3 Likes
You acknowledge that the developers will use the naming conventions to indicate the norms yet fail to apply that to your assertion about a “standard map”
They’ve had all the time in the world to tag Arabia as “standard” or at least make it the default map setting. They haven’t. It’s not the standard. It’s not the standard by any stretch of logic, it’s only standard within the confines of your mind and your definition of standard which is as subjective as anything you can possibly imagine.
Fact of the matter is, I disagree with you, because Standard is a term that is well defined within the game and used in specific ways and attempting to stretch that definition in a way the game designers have not is needlessly loading what would otherwise be a completely non-controversial tagline. Arabia is the most popular map. You calling it the “standard” irrespective of the definitions used by the devs doesn’t add any weight to it whatsoever. It just leads to you and me bickering over it.
To come back to the OP, I think he’s right on the surface (that they didn’t need this buff) but on his suggestions, I think he’s wrong because what they really need to replace this bonus with is nothing. The civ was already strong, and without a doubt, incredibly underappreciated. Low play rate tends to do that, and I’d hope that if one good thing comes out of the TC changes, it’s that they’ll see enough play to bear out my previously made assertions as to the civ strengths.
The fact that you even think this is an argument is hillarious. Ofc Arabia doesnt get renamed. Imagine having maps named “Arena”, “Archipelagio”, “Scandinavia”, “Acropolis”, “Standard”.
You are so increadibly fixated on names and tags that you completly fail to understand that a standard doesnt need to be called standard to become one.
1 Like
When the game has a habit of calling things standard and setting things as the standard, whether or not they set something as the standard is an important insight as to how they consider the setting.
They’ve set standard as an option for practically everything besides maps. That’s my point. There is no standard map. Maps are supposed to be the wildcard, the unique factor for which there shouldn’t be a standard.
I’m not arguing with you. I’m stating an observable fact that you can’t seem to grasp.
so you…dont know…the difference between standard and default.
Nice.
1 Like
No, I’m making the point that within the game, the definitions the developers use are important.
They don’t use default generally. They use standard generally.
When you use the term the Devs coin for specific things, you are giving weight to it because the developers use it. The fact of the matter is, in a game made by someone who isn’t you, you don’t have control over the definitions they use and how they apply it. Needlessly, continuously using the definitions they have determined accurate in ways they have not determined accurate is just loading the defined subject with zero backing.
This is going in circles, but at least we’re getting to you insulting my intelligence. That’s sure to speed the conversation along.
If you wanted to call Arabia the “default” tournament map, I wouldn’t have a problem with it, because default isn’t a loaded term in AOE 2 because definitions matter and those who don’t think they do are foolish.
I completly agree.
your problem is: You conflate the NAME “standard” (in the settings) with the FUNCTION of a standard:
I dont even need to write a reply anymore, i can just copy what i already wrote <3
3 Likes
It’s not conflation. You are the one conflating a popular map with a standard setting. These two things are not the same and it’s intellectually dishonest to claim that they are.
this is getting boring. Think of a new argument instead of misquoting me
2 Likes
I didn’t even quote you.
But if you want a new argument.
CONQUEST IS NOT THE STANDARD SETTING FOR GAME VICTORY.
CONQUEST IS THE DEFAULT TOURNAMENT SETTING.
If this doesn’t drill home the difference literally nothing I can say will explain the difference to you.
1 Like
This is getting more and more boring 11
2 Likes
cough cough
cough
1 Like