Those guys who complain about Inca op don’t play Inca at all, and don‘t know how painful Inca players are.
Great post, so tired of hearing people whine that Inca are OP and need another nerf. They have been nerfed enough, the devs kept nerfing the Kancha houses which were not OP to begin with making them more expensive then decreasing the number you can build when that was the best thing about them their units aren’t that good.
[quote=“CliffyCoder8489, post:2, topic:201010, full:true”]
You are absolutely right, other people only see that in the game, Kaiserklein loses and think Inca is OP.
This is absolutely true, people including pros like
Kaiserklein just whine for nerfs any time they lose to something or some certain civ
This is the reason most players would refer to Inca as “broken” but not op. The whole huaraca fort combo is stupid, broken and against the entire design of aoe3 (counter system and the garrison thing). Its ridiculous. But you’re 100% right l, the times I have played inca i really liked plumed spearmen and everything else was kinda meh. I wouldn’t say inca needs a nerf right now, it needs a roster overhaul to fill all unit roles (including a ranged cavalry type and a dedicated anti artillery)
if you lose with inca it’s because you suck and you don’t know how to play them nothing more, the fort and huaraca are just impossible to beat kynesie proved it and despite all the evidence “inca sucks”, we not talking about other things the devs did bad nerfs, instead of nerfing the fort and reworking the huaraca they nerfed the start and the kanchas when that wasn’t even the problem, the problem is still the same THE FORT AND THE HUARACA
and to say that it’s just because kaiserklein it’s just wrong, it’s been months that everyone says it but all the noob speak as if they know the game and do not know what they are talking about, the proof on this thread for example
sorry if I’m salty but it’s annoying to see all this nonsense sincerly
Developers, I think that many people would agree with a rework of the Incas and taking advantage of the fact that there are people working and planning future reworks, I want to ask that the requests of the players be taken into account
Modernize the Inca faction by means of revolutions or by passing of age.
A rework of the military buildings and units, they need urgent adjustments.
Revert the negative changes to the Inca economy (kancha) and balance the units that need it.
The ability to garrison units in forts needs review, maybe some limitation during combat.
Personal request: I believe that a Manco Inca revolution should be added and together with the Tupac Amaru revolution be converted into two continuous revolutions similar to the Mayans and Yucatan.
Note: Anything I forgot or didn’t take into account, please comment.
This would be pretty easy to achieve, you’d just need a card or big button upgrade like “Neo-Incan Reforms” to reform their unit roster and give them Bolas Riders and Light Cannons. Unlike the Aztecs, the Inca actually survived long enough to adopt European technology like gunpowder and horses.
Bolas Riders should just completely replace Bolas Warriors after the upgrade. It would also be a blessing for playing against Inca since you wouldn’t have to struggle to distinguish between the extremely similar looking Bolas Warriors and Huaracas. Bolas Riders should just be a standard unit instead of a native one and could be shared with a future Mapuche civ.
Light Cannons getting trained from the Stronghold would give them reasonable anti-artillery and let Huaracas be toned down into a more reasonable Abus/Grenadier unit.
There are also Macemen and Chincha Rafts that are supposed to fill way more roles than they should be doing.
Chincha Rafts do the heavy lifting of an entire navy so adding some smaller Balsa Boats as a canoe equivalent would take some pressure off and make Chincha Rafts a less gimmicky unit.
Inca should be given Rams so that Macemen could take on a role other than siege unit. Rams would first need to not suck so some changes like this could be done:
They’re also chocked full of other BS like military garrisoning, converting priestesses, factory houses, invisible forts, and way too speedy pikemen that I think could be scrapped or reworked.
If they nerf the stronghold or huaraca that will completely kill inca, there’s nothing left. Unless they do a total 360 so other strategies become viable again, so reduce cost of queens festival, reduce cost of kanchas back to at the most 135, put schooners back etc. Then possibly a huaraca change by negative multiplier vs infantry in exchange for much more range so they can actually do their job of anti-artillery without getting out ranged by falconets.
The whole thing since kaiserklein losing is quite funny especially as he chose germans vs inca and lost like 2 games before so then he chooses them again, plenty of other civs are better at dealing with inca. A civ that’s been nerfed into the ground can’t be blamed for old school players unwillingness to adapt to the new de meta and just playing the same 2 civs they’ve played for 15 years.
the fun part is that you speak without even knowing the rules of the tournament, kaiser picked first and kynesie counter picked
yes lets goo kanchas 135w for 0.6 food/sec or smth, great excellent idea
huaraca with " much more range " yeah lets do it put them at 25 range and outrange skirm and then it become more unkillable even with negative multiplier, as i can see you know the game
I know the rules and it was quite obvious he’d pick inca on that map, at least pick a civ that are able to deal with them better. If he learned new civs he’d be better equiped to deal with them instead of just the same few euro civs.
I don’t see any issue with kancha being 135 wood and 0.6 food per second, you only get 12 of them and each brit manor costs the same and they can pop a vill out and get double that food income with 1 villager and get 20 villagers. Particularly if you wish to nerf incas only viable strat then something needs to be buffed in return.
I do know the game thanks, no need to be rude. Huaraca are supposed to be anti-artillery, currently they don’t even fill that role well without the stronghold the falconets out range them significantly and counter them as they’re infantry. So if there is any nerf to the stronghold or huaracas then they need to be buffed vs artillery, make them more like arrow knights or just give them a massive negative multiplier vs infantry in return for more range than a falconet, imagine culverins being out ranged by falconets because that’s how it is for the inca a civ that already suffer vs artillery and skirms.
he doesn’t know about the civ reset which for a bo5 its a bit stupid but well
vills can be raided and doesn’t have infinite ress
yeah sorry i am salty, because everyone pretend inca is fine which its not true sincerly, this civ is broken cuz of chasqui can reiceive eco shipment and then spawn a fort in the middle like wtf, garrison 50 unit in the fort just why everyone know its stupid and broken, why is huaraca is a anti inf building culv in the same time, this civ is just a disaster in every aspect
I was surprised myself by the rules, typically you can only win once with a civ.
I understand that the kanchas are a safer source of food, but it is only food and brit villagers can be tasked to other resources too making them far more valuable.
12 kanchas with 0.6 food trickle = 7.2 food per second. Cost to build 2160 wood.
20 villagers on food from a brit virginia boom (assuming steel traps researched) =
21.8 food per second. Cost to build 1845 wood.
So the villagers provide 3x as much food income and the manor boom costs almost 20% less wood to achieve. Inca units are also very food heavy.
Anyway the civ design is unfortunate, similar to aztecs the all infantry design and no artillery leaves them weak to skirmisher masses late game, if you remove the stronghold huaracas are useless, they’re such a frustrating unit to use because 5 of them are like equal res to a falc, with 20 range they can’t get close because most skirms have 20 range too and the falconets themselves have more range and counter them.
The reason I suggested reverting the kancha change is because if anything about the huaraca stronghold FF is nerfed then inca are completely dead because everything they did previously has been nerfed hard.
I agree that strongholds are broken, I never said they weren’t, but Inca seems to have been designed as an ambush hit and run civ, remember when the Inca stealth units walked at normal speed or when chimus couldn’t be snared. All the Incan units were designed to run out of the trees and hit your economy and then turn tail and run back behind their walls or garrison inside of the stronghold because they can’t survive a head on attack, they are like paper, and the units aren’t cheap enough to throw away like the Chinese or Russians.
Inca has lost most of what made it designed for hit and runs, while their units have remained largely unchanged. So when inevitably the stronghold gets nerfed all I ask is that the developers take a hard look at what remains and refocused the Incan units to something else if we are not suppose to be able to hit and run, please give us other options.
All the valid complains hinge on the garrisoning feature. huaraca’s are literally a worse off abus gun as soon as they can’t hide in a building, and I never hear people complaining about abus guns. Movable shipment points at age 3 have already been done in the form of dymios but people don’t complain about that particular feature on them only because they can’t spawn a fort that garrisons units. As soon as the garrison feature is addressed people will forget about Inca and it will drop to a bottom tier civ unless other changes are made to address the absence of a garrison feature. Please by all means get rid of the garrison feature just give us other options
So in your opinion, is the Inca civilization badly designed and needs a reworking?
All you inca fanboys settle down. They are still quite a powerful civ but like everyone’s complaint about their favorite civ, they can’t be the best of everything. If that were the case they would be the same as japan
My personal thoughts about the Incas would be the following.
The Incas would have to be a semi European and semi indigenous civilization, a civilization that combines the best of both worlds.
The Incas have as much wasted potential it hurts as they were implemented.
It’s probably not the fault of the developers because they didn’t have time to develop the ideas better, I hope they do justice to the Incas with a good rework.
Yes they probably need a rework. Ya I like the ideas you put forward above and in previous posts.
However imho I just don’t see that happening simply do to the amount of work it would require, its a lot easier to remove a feature and then rework the stats of 6 units then it would be to add additional units and take the bola riders from the natives the devs have enough on there plates with the rework for the other natives lak/had the new civ(s) coming out and what appears to be a steady rework and roll out of the European civs.
and I don’t think people say it enough, Thank you developers for all the work you’ve put in so far I remember when the de versions was only suppose to come out with better graphics, instead you guys have managed to give us a ton of new content and while yes there are bugs and imbalances at least you’ve shown you are willing to continue to support (with regular updates) this game when others have moved on to greener pastures.
I think the complaints are over blown a bit too. If you’ve seen my list of inca nerfs you’ll know every viable strat they had has been nerfed into the ground. The fort garrisoning can’t be removed because it’s their unique feature and is essential to their gameplay due to the fact all of their units are weak or lose cost effectively. Their only counter to artillery is huaraca so basically an abus gun, a decent mass of abus can snipe a falc sure but if the falcs are deployed and firing they’ll all get shots off before the huaraca are even in range, then they are likely accompanied with a mass of skirms that have the same range as huaracas and just shred them.
If fort garrisoning is removed it becomes useless, USA/Mexico can build/ship much better forts that beat 2 falcs even without garrisoning. Practically every civ can ship a fort too, that’s got 30% more hp than a stronghold, enough range to hit falcs and more damage and AOE.
I’d imagine that if we could see the stats inca have a below average win rate that’s why nerfs have stopped, and 1 or 2 great uses of the stronghold at the highest level isn’t a representation of how it goes in 99% of ladder games.
Petards and some cav deal with the fort then it’s game over, alternatively age 2 aggression or FF and catch the fort being built and get it down before the huaraca shipments arrive.
Brit sends siege archery and even longbowmen can safely siege the fort outside of it’s attack range, ethiopian mortar can destroy it easily, inca has no culvs how do huaracas stop a sebas mortar protected by gascenya with an abun healing it? Ship your own fort between your base and the stronghold, regular forts out range and kill huaracas.
There are many ways to deal with this FF.
the fact that literally every aspect of inca has been nerfed and it is still cheesing tournament wins and making players crazy should tell you something. its not a unit stat or a crate start issue but an entire civilization built and designed badly
garrisoning military units has no place in aoe3. remove that and then we can talk about unit stats (which are admittedly pretty sad), but rn it doesn’t matter much when they never have to take a head on battle and let buildings do the work for them. Huaracas are awful design. macemen are useless. bolas got nerfed too hard. plumed spearmen are awesome. chimu were cheesy, now fairly ok, jungle bowmen overperform vs high rr units and kinda suck vs muskets
I don’t see them reworking the whole civ though, at the most they change a couple of units each patch. Now we’ve got spain rework coming up so they’ll be focusing on balancing that and then a new civ will release new problems to solve there.
The whole civ was designed on cheesing buildings and hit and run style, shipping chimu behind their base to your chasqui, killing a few vills then running back to the stronghold. Personally I do enjoy it though it has issues.
I doubt we’ll see any change to the stronghold or huaraca as only recently they nerfed basically all of incas age 3 shipments, so players will have to adjust to the strategy. It’s cheesy af but really not unbeatable at all and behind it they have no eco and no way to recover.
Too many features for a single civ from the beggining:
- Kanchas and trickles.
- Faster units/unsnare
- Priestess and llamas
And so on…