The Truth About Incas

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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This is a very long post I apologies in advance if you want the tldr just head down to the stars **** or read about Macemen if you want a good laugh.

The Inca civ is basically a glass cannon civ, without the cannon, most of its units have far lower hp and damage then similar units of other civs. you want to know why we use Harakas and stronghold well read on.

Jungle bows: imperial hp is only 180 even a Cassador has more hp, higher damage and multipliers. JB also only do 1.75 bonus damage vs heavy inf or 2.75 if you waste a card slot. Musks can literally trade with jungle bows when their out in the open, so the literal unit they were designed to counter. And you may say they have poison, well +5 damaged does not equal a x3 multiplier and actual health.

Plumed spears: Imperial hp is only 340. This is Incas one saving grace a unit with average damage and actual hp however the next closest unit the Halberdier has 380hp with higher damage, in general I have no complains with this unit.

Chimus: imperial hp is only 280. Coyote runners have 310 Chimus can only hit and run and as soon as they get snared they die with their lower hp, or you can wait till age 4 for stealth when Aztec can have it on their coyotes in age 2, and stealth only works so well when your enemy can simply build an outpost or tc or explorer or literally any unit that discover stealth or spies in late game

Harakas: imperial hp of 240, whereas albus guns have 273 and more damage. You want to kill cannons with harakas well bloody good luck, because they get completely out ranged and because there still infantry they get countered by them so expect 2-3 to die per cannon shot. And did I mention their expensive for about the same cost as an abus you too can have less damage and hp what a deal


Bollas: imperial hp of 280, Once upon a time this was the musk type unit (imp musk’s have more hp and damage) a good general use unit that what it lacked in damage and hp it made up for in splash damage, it was a unit you could actually use, until they nerfed it vs infantry and now even vs cav you might as well use plumed spears because they have res vs range not hand, if they wanted to balance this unit they could have just raised the cost of the bola to that of and eagle runner knight and left its stats vs infantry alone

Macemen: imperial hp of 640. Don’t even get me started on this unit, it is an absolute joke I’ve seen a French cuirassier take on two of these and not die, they are pop heavy, as expensive as a cuirassier, they have a slower hand attack then ANY other unit in the game and their multipliers are pathetic. You want to make an enemy laugh to death send in these units and watch them try to siege something because guess what they don’t have torches so they all have to line up and start hitting something which means that 60% of them bug out and stand around while the other 40% slowly proceed to hit the building or wall because they cant fit.

**** In summary you want to know why Inca hides behind their walls, their upgraded buildings, and garrisons inside of their forts. Its because we have NO OTHER OPTIONS . we cannot trade effectively with other civs so we have to rely completely on hit and runs. All of our (inca) units have less hp and less damage than similar units, what does Inca have? We have unit speed, walls and a fort to hide in, but as soon as those things get destroyed Inca gets bent over. So of course we are going to use a stronghold and Harakas we have nothing else to use. ****

What can we do late game, well if were lucky we can send endless amounts of trash units at you until you eventually give in due to all the raids. At the end of a late game if I haven’t lost 3-4 times more units then my opponent I must be playing Aztec or a civ with hp, I have yet to experience a balanced game where I didn’t lose over 1k units to my opponents 300.

Inca has been whittled away patch by patch if you take away our ability to garrison units then please take a look at all of our units and either make them dirt cheap so they will truly be the Russia civ of south America or please, please, please give them some better multipliers and hp because we can only hide in our stronghold for so long.

I apologies if this has become a bit of a rant, im just tired of hearing about how broken Inca is when in reality it is our only option to play competitively

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You are absolutely right, other people only see that in the game, Kaiserklein loses and think Inca is OP.

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I think that if the developers use the feats of Manco inca and Tupac amaru they could modernize the incas and make them more like the mayans

Age 1
Age 2
Age 3 Manco Inca Revolution
Age 4 Tupac Amaru Revolution

Note: I think this could help give the Incas more options and not have to abuse the Fortresses

Revolution of Manco Inca
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It allows to train the archaic units of the Spanish but they maintain the Inca improvements.

Revolution of Tupac Amaru
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It allows to train modern units of the Spanish and the Inca improvements are maintained

By Inca improvements I mean for example:
Elite Feathered Spearman gives an Elite Pikeman

Assuming the developers are interested in upgrading the Incas, I’ll leave the cards to the developers’ discretion.

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image587×736 128 KB

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Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Since all the inca hate began they’ve received nothing but nerf after nerf.
Kancha boom which at the most was worth like 10 vills on food, yet kancha got cost increased to 180 wood from 135. Brit had it’s house increased by 5 wood and they changed it back. The manor boom is worth over twice the eco of a kancha boom for similar cost, same with banks, haciendas, shrines etc all of them are better.

They added villager cards and an extra vill, the extra vill got removed and queens festival got moved to age 2 and price increased to 900 resources for 4 villagers. Eco start ruined.
We had 2 war hut age up for turtling or aggressive age 2, changed to 2 builders.
New card for kallankas in age 2, got a cost of 500 wood to send it now it’s useless. Equivalent of 1200 resources just to be able to train weaker versions of age 3 units, the age 2 nerf to range was enough for huaracas, why add a cost of 500 wood to the card.
Units got prices increased in wood, age 3 shipments got the units lowered and huaraca card changed from infinite to just 1 use.
2 town centre wagon card no longer increases build limit making turtling weaker, every other civ gets increased limit.
Building hp changed to a team card now just 25%.
Chimu nerfed, now only free from snare with an ability.
Bolas nerfed vs infantry. Range and speed lowered.
Bolas and huaraca now get upgraded based on age 2 stats not age 3, so nerfed.
inca bridges speed card moved from age 1 to age 2(only 5% upgrade)
Road building speed card moved from age 2 to age 3.
Schooners card removed.

Now there’s a lot of hate for the stronghold and huaraca FF but as OP mentioned, everything else has been nerfed, kancha boom nerfed, water boom nerfed, turtling nerfed.
I enjoyed turtling with inca similar to portugal, but now tc cards don’t improve the build limit, building hp nerfed, no 2 war hut age up so it’s a lot harder now.
Water boom no longer has schooners, still possible but a pointless unnecessary nerf.

The huaraca FF isn’t even as good as it was since infinite huaraca card was removed and it’s sacrificing eco. The fort itself only has 6k HP, a few petards and it’s done, the fort also has lower range than a falconet so can’t hit them.

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I guess by now the Incas need a rework :pensive:

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Those guys who complain about Inca op don’t play Inca at all, and don‘t know how painful Inca players are.

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Great post, so tired of hearing people whine that Inca are OP and need another nerf. They have been nerfed enough, the devs kept nerfing the Kancha houses which were not OP to begin with making them more expensive then decreasing the number you can build when that was the best thing about them their units aren’t that good.

[quote=“CliffyCoder8489, post:2, topic:201010, full:true”]
You are absolutely right, other people only see that in the game, Kaiserklein loses and think Inca is OP.
[/quote]emphasized text

This is absolutely true, people including pros like
Kaiserklein just whine for nerfs any time they lose to something or some certain civ

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This is the reason most players would refer to Inca as “broken” but not op. The whole huaraca fort combo is stupid, broken and against the entire design of aoe3 (counter system and the garrison thing). Its ridiculous. But you’re 100% right l, the times I have played inca i really liked plumed spearmen and everything else was kinda meh. I wouldn’t say inca needs a nerf right now, it needs a roster overhaul to fill all unit roles (including a ranged cavalry type and a dedicated anti artillery)

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if you lose with inca it’s because you suck and you don’t know how to play them nothing more, the fort and huaraca are just impossible to beat kynesie proved it and despite all the evidence “inca sucks”, we not talking about other things the devs did bad nerfs, instead of nerfing the fort and reworking the huaraca they nerfed the start and the kanchas when that wasn’t even the problem, the problem is still the same THE FORT AND THE HUARACA

and to say that it’s just because kaiserklein it’s just wrong, it’s been months that everyone says it but all the noob speak as if they know the game and do not know what they are talking about, the proof on this thread for example

sorry if I’m salty but it’s annoying to see all this nonsense sincerly

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Developers, I think that many people would agree with a rework of the Incas and taking advantage of the fact that there are people working and planning future reworks, I want to ask that the requests of the players be taken into account

  1. Modernize the Inca faction by means of revolutions or by passing of age.

  2. A rework of the military buildings and units, they need urgent adjustments.

  3. Revert the negative changes to the Inca economy (kancha) and balance the units that need it.

  4. The ability to garrison units in forts needs review, maybe some limitation during combat.

Personal request: I believe that a Manco Inca revolution should be added and together with the Tupac Amaru revolution be converted into two continuous revolutions similar to the Mayans and Yucatan.

Note: Anything I forgot or didn’t take into account, please comment.

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This would be pretty easy to achieve, you’d just need a card or big button upgrade like “Neo-Incan Reforms” to reform their unit roster and give them Bolas Riders and Light Cannons. Unlike the Aztecs, the Inca actually survived long enough to adopt European technology like gunpowder and horses.

Bolas Riders should just completely replace Bolas Warriors after the upgrade. It would also be a blessing for playing against Inca since you wouldn’t have to struggle to distinguish between the extremely similar looking Bolas Warriors and Huaracas. Bolas Riders should just be a standard unit instead of a native one and could be shared with a future Mapuche civ.

Light Cannons getting trained from the Stronghold would give them reasonable anti-artillery and let Huaracas be toned down into a more reasonable Abus/Grenadier unit.

There are also Macemen and Chincha Rafts that are supposed to fill way more roles than they should be doing.

Chincha Rafts do the heavy lifting of an entire navy so adding some smaller Balsa Boats as a canoe equivalent would take some pressure off and make Chincha Rafts a less gimmicky unit.

Inca should be given Rams so that Macemen could take on a role other than siege unit. Rams would first need to not suck so some changes like this could be done:

They’re also chocked full of other BS like military garrisoning, converting priestesses, factory houses, invisible forts, and way too speedy pikemen that I think could be scrapped or reworked.

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If they nerf the stronghold or huaraca that will completely kill inca, there’s nothing left. Unless they do a total 360 so other strategies become viable again, so reduce cost of queens festival, reduce cost of kanchas back to at the most 135, put schooners back etc. Then possibly a huaraca change by negative multiplier vs infantry in exchange for much more range so they can actually do their job of anti-artillery without getting out ranged by falconets.

The whole thing since kaiserklein losing is quite funny especially as he chose germans vs inca and lost like 2 games before so then he chooses them again, plenty of other civs are better at dealing with inca. A civ that’s been nerfed into the ground can’t be blamed for old school players unwillingness to adapt to the new de meta and just playing the same 2 civs they’ve played for 15 years.

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the fun part is that you speak without even knowing the rules of the tournament, kaiser picked first and kynesie counter picked

yes lets goo kanchas 135w for 0.6 food/sec or smth, great excellent idea
huaraca with " much more range " yeah lets do it put them at 25 range and outrange skirm and then it become more unkillable even with negative multiplier, as i can see you know the game

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I know the rules and it was quite obvious he’d pick inca on that map, at least pick a civ that are able to deal with them better. If he learned new civs he’d be better equiped to deal with them instead of just the same few euro civs.

I don’t see any issue with kancha being 135 wood and 0.6 food per second, you only get 12 of them and each brit manor costs the same and they can pop a vill out and get double that food income with 1 villager and get 20 villagers. Particularly if you wish to nerf incas only viable strat then something needs to be buffed in return.

I do know the game thanks, no need to be rude. Huaraca are supposed to be anti-artillery, currently they don’t even fill that role well without the stronghold the falconets out range them significantly and counter them as they’re infantry. So if there is any nerf to the stronghold or huaracas then they need to be buffed vs artillery, make them more like arrow knights or just give them a massive negative multiplier vs infantry in return for more range than a falconet, imagine culverins being out ranged by falconets because that’s how it is for the inca a civ that already suffer vs artillery and skirms.

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he doesn’t know about the civ reset which for a bo5 its a bit stupid but well

vills can be raided and doesn’t have infinite ress

yeah sorry i am salty, because everyone pretend inca is fine which its not true sincerly, this civ is broken cuz of chasqui can reiceive eco shipment and then spawn a fort in the middle like wtf, garrison 50 unit in the fort just why everyone know its stupid and broken, why is huaraca is a anti inf building culv in the same time, this civ is just a disaster in every aspect

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I was surprised myself by the rules, typically you can only win once with a civ.

I understand that the kanchas are a safer source of food, but it is only food and brit villagers can be tasked to other resources too making them far more valuable.

12 kanchas with 0.6 food trickle = 7.2 food per second. Cost to build 2160 wood.

20 villagers on food from a brit virginia boom (assuming steel traps researched) =
21.8 food per second. Cost to build 1845 wood.

So the villagers provide 3x as much food income and the manor boom costs almost 20% less wood to achieve. Inca units are also very food heavy.

Anyway the civ design is unfortunate, similar to aztecs the all infantry design and no artillery leaves them weak to skirmisher masses late game, if you remove the stronghold huaracas are useless, they’re such a frustrating unit to use because 5 of them are like equal res to a falc, with 20 range they can’t get close because most skirms have 20 range too and the falconets themselves have more range and counter them.

The reason I suggested reverting the kancha change is because if anything about the huaraca stronghold FF is nerfed then inca are completely dead because everything they did previously has been nerfed hard.

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I agree that strongholds are broken, I never said they weren’t, but Inca seems to have been designed as an ambush hit and run civ, remember when the Inca stealth units walked at normal speed or when chimus couldn’t be snared. All the Incan units were designed to run out of the trees and hit your economy and then turn tail and run back behind their walls or garrison inside of the stronghold because they can’t survive a head on attack, they are like paper, and the units aren’t cheap enough to throw away like the Chinese or Russians.

Inca has lost most of what made it designed for hit and runs, while their units have remained largely unchanged. So when inevitably the stronghold gets nerfed all I ask is that the developers take a hard look at what remains and refocused the Incan units to something else if we are not suppose to be able to hit and run, please give us other options.

All the valid complains hinge on the garrisoning feature. huaraca’s are literally a worse off abus gun as soon as they can’t hide in a building, and I never hear people complaining about abus guns. Movable shipment points at age 3 have already been done in the form of dymios but people don’t complain about that particular feature on them only because they can’t spawn a fort that garrisons units. As soon as the garrison feature is addressed people will forget about Inca and it will drop to a bottom tier civ unless other changes are made to address the absence of a garrison feature. Please by all means get rid of the garrison feature just give us other options

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So in your opinion, is the Inca civilization badly designed and needs a reworking? :pensive:

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All you inca fanboys settle down. They are still quite a powerful civ but like everyone’s complaint about their favorite civ, they can’t be the best of everything. If that were the case they would be the same as japan

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My personal thoughts about the Incas would be the following.

  1. The Incas would have to be a semi European and semi indigenous civilization, a civilization that combines the best of both worlds.

  2. The Incas have as much wasted potential it hurts as they were implemented. :pensive:

  3. It’s probably not the fault of the developers because they didn’t have time to develop the ideas better, I hope they do justice to the Incas with a good rework.