The Tupis - new civ concept

Anishinaabe culture area

obraz

I think they could easily use the common architectural style of the Iroquois :wink: - Northeastern?

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Ah so they bridge the gap between Haudenosaunee and Dakota tribes?

Do we have ruler names for this tribe? Or some interesting campaign story?

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You can exchange rulers from among the tribes of this group. You can safely find them.

Zapotecs had a different religion culture from Nahuatl(Aztec) World and Mayan World.

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Would be better if you can mention something.

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Tbh the biggest diference is that Zapotecs have been around for a loooong time compared to the pretty recent Aztecs. They were the people that influenced the Aztecs

They did not have the same language.

That’s like saying Chinese and Japanese speak the same language.

And talking about language, Aztecs speak a made up language, in both AoE2 and AoE3. I really wish that’d get fixed. The actual Aztec language, Nahuatl, is even still spoken.

Perhaps the wonder could be whatever pyramid they end up digging out at the Casarabe Culture site?

I am hesitant to validate the Tupi and “Anishinaabe” as civs due to their lack of recorded accomplishments.

I would hate for Age of Empires to be come “Age of Ethnic Groups” lol. Like, I am very unfamiliar with any medieval achievements they made in technology, trade, conquest, or anything for that matter. The Mapuche, and the Iroquois I can understand - they’d be pretty cool. But have either the Tupi or Anishinaabe done anything to earn a spot on the roster? I’d love to hear if they have

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And what medieval accomplishments did Mapuche and Iroquois make? Neither of them have much recorded history from medieval times and are only really prominent in the late 1500s and later. Having them in AoE2 seems too anachronistic and they should just stay in AoE3.

Anishinaabe and Tupi were pretty comparable to the influence of Iroquois and Mapuche in medieval times and we’re possibly even more influential.

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Good thing none of them are in the game.

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  • Mapuche kicked the incas out of Chile at the battle of Maule in 1485, and later destroyed Spain’s fortified foothold there during the “Destruction of Seven Cities”

  • Iroquois (Haudenosaunee) united under a single polity after years of civil war, centuries before First Contact, and then they expanded by absorbing the Saint Lawrence Iroquois and all but exterminating other tribes like the Innu.

Very substantial compared to anything I’ve heard of the Anishinabe and Tupi. (I’d love to find something substantial about them if there is anything though)

If we’re judging by anachronism, being around the “1500s and later” the Portuguese and Koreans fit that same standard. Neither of them did much outside of their own territory until then either.

Bruh

Do you have some privileged information you want to share with us, Zartusht?

I think this civ fits better in Age III, but get a Like for the Canibalism tech! :+1:

Now talking serioulsy, great concept! Perhaps their Wonder could be a smaller version of their round villages with a palisade wall around?

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Outside of the previous, Historians like Louis F. Burns has concluded, based on archaeology, the early Haudenosaunee violently expanded into modern Ohio and Kentucky, dispelling thousands of Sioux speaking peoples to the west. The Iroquois, as a general people, also innovated farming with the Three Sisters Technique which produced so much more food than the surrounding peoples that the Algonquin would often refer to Iroquoian peoples like the Huron as “The storehouse of grain”.

The Mapuche defeated the Chilean Governor Valdivia in 1553, in open battle and siege, using their Macana maces to kill armored horses with a single blow, and bolas to tangle the Spanish. When the governor promised them tons of cows and the Spanish abandonment of Chile and Argentina, the Mapuche chopped him up and roasted him.

I think those are some pretty good credentials

indeed! lol. Do you think there anything else about the Tupi that could objectively be formidable to a medieval people like the English or Chinese? Or to a Colonial empire like the Dutch or Mughals? Are there any examples of them organizing anything like a campaign on a mass scale?

Is anyone aware of other unique or innovative examples of pre-colonial Tupi architecture?

Some would say so, but when I see that on someone’s Résumé, I usually won’t have them come in for an interview.

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That is more in the range of myth, according to the literature and recent studies what really happened was that an Inca scouting party was ambushed by a large Mapuche group, and somehow the Inca group managed to resist the ambush. The place and date of the conflict are not yet known.

These cities were really border towns dedicated mainly to cattle ranching, an estimated 3,000 Spanish lives of all ages were lost (mostly poorly armed settlers) and 500 women were kidnapped (most later rescued by Spanish raids).

The Portuguese were the best explorers in the world, they were in contact with most of the known world. About Korea do you talk about the Joseon Dynasty?

That drawing is by Felipe Huamán Poma, his book is open access.

In that book it is explained that the Incas defeated the Mapuches (Chilean Indians) through military campaigns and a timely “pestilence”.

EL OTABO CAPITÁN, Apo Camae [sic] Ynga:

Fue muy baleroso capitán y que parecía como un león. Tenía temerarios ojos; con una bofetada derriuaua a un hombre y desmayaua ona ora. Y ancí este baleroso capitán fue a Chile lleuando cincoenta mil yndios soldados a la conquista. Y fue hijo de Pachacuti Ynga Yupanqui. Y dizen que mató cien mil chilenos.

Cuci Uanan Chire Ynga y Mango Capac Ynga y Topa Amaro Ynga, Ynga Maytac: Con estos dichos capitanes conquistaron todo Chile y la prouincia de Chaclla, Yaucha, ######## Cocha, Tarma. Llebó ueynte mil yndios; conquistaron y mataron muchos yndios y algunos yndios de los llanos yungas. Y murieron en sus conquistas cin bolber a la ciudad del Cuzco.

Para uenser todo Chile, aguardaron que ubiese pistelencia; en el tienpo de pistelencia y hambre de dies años que ubo en este rreyno y en toda Castilla. Como estauan en este trauajo, se dejaron uenserse y conquistarse como en la conquista deste rreyno. Fue Dios seruido que dos rreys se matasen y alborotasen la gente. Y ací fue conquistado.

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This is excellent! I hadn’t found this many Mapuche sources, previously! In my collective 2 hours of research I only came across 4 shallow sources. How’d you come across all this?

The (likely older, outdated) account I had found implied it was a stalemate, if not a Mapuche victory

Both! I am mainly referencing the comparable Mapuche relevance/power projection by their own right on the world stage, when it comes to the timeline. Until the Portuguese begin sailing around Africa in the 15th century, they were thought of as just another small Iberian kingdom. The Koreans are ####### to others for most of their medieval history, until the Japanese invasion. And the Mapuche are not relevant to general historical developments until that same time frame.