There shouldn't be UTs that make only UU stronger

It is weird when you UTs are only buffing your UUs instead of multiple things. Like it is fine if it buffs units other than UUs because it makes the civ unique in a way, but UU itself is unique already. More civs should get the Korean turtle ship treatment

For example Persian War Elephants should have their speed increased from 0.6 to 0.72, so 20% increase but still considerably slower than Battle Elephant. But Mahouts wouldn’t be necessary.

Then Mahouts can be replaced with something else like for example all stable units costing -20% food. This would help their lategame as cavalry civ, giving their Paladins, Camel riders and Hussars something that distinguishes them from other paladin civs.

List of UTs that only affect the UU stats:

  • Berserkergang: Berserks regenerate.

Maybe should affect other infantry as well? Or regular berserks should already have the ability but weaker and then elite buffs it up so vikings can for example have SUPER HANDCART: more speed and carry capacity on vils on imp.

  • Mahouts

  • Bearded Axe:(Throwing axemen +1 range, oh yeah let me get elite TA and this, replace this with something nice and just include the range in the elite upgrade)

  • Corvinian Army: (magyar huszar no gold cost)

  • Logistica: Cataphracts finally become decent.

I think what they should do is replace these UTs with something cool and just fix the UUs themselves. I am sure Magyars don’t mind paying 10 gold extra for magyar huszars as long as they get some nice UT for example “ALL units +5 HP”, this would help their Hussar, archers and scorpions in particular.

I have nothing against UTs that make Huskarls or Tarkans trainable at barracks/stables as they shouldnt originally be so.


Persians are already quite strong and don’t need a late game buff.

Vikings are S tier civ.


I agree with the OP. UT must be something bigger than a UU buff. We have the elite upgrade for that.


Yes, I got the point and I like it

I’m afraid I disagree. It isnt like any of these screw up game balance, and having a unique tech that further pumps a UU doesn’t detract from the game in any subjective way.


Berserks already have regen, at 0.33hp per second

the Tech buffs it to 0.66hp/s


This idea has some merits, but you can’t just make so much ressources to upgrade units disappear out of thin air, and even less so replace those with an actually good UT. Vikings with cheaper to upgrade Berserks AND a super handcart tech is such a bad idea I can’t even begin to describe how dire it is.


Yea, the way I see is that UTs are more like civ bonuses locked behind castles and resources. And if it only buffs UU, unit that is only available to the civ, it really isn’t a civ bonus. Like automatically shooting for TC from malians is a good civ bonus, or extra gold income from indians

Balance definitely needs to be something to looked out for. These civs can be added meaningful decisions and playstyles without losing anything so it would make the game more fun and add more nice moments. My ideas most likely aren’t that great for the new civ bonuses but that it would be up to the developers to decide what the civs are missing.

Im not sure what the problem is with UTs buffing UUs. You seem to assume that whenever i build the UU, i get the UT anyways, but this is wrong in most cases.

I might mix in a few catas when going camels to have something against the pikeswitch, until my ranges are up and i can mass a proper counter. It would not be fair for those catas to have AoE dmg already - i barely invested ressources into them.
I might build a few axemen to kill a ram and save my castle. Again, i barely invest ressources, why should i get range for free?

Those UTs do have a very specific purpose: Its to stagger the power of a unit, because massing the unit straight up without the need of further investment would be really strong. Making the upgrade for free is a straight up buff to the civ, but Persians, Vikings and Franks are already very strong, Magyars and Byzantines are okay as well. Why would you buff civs that dont need it?


Exactly this…

Or else the elite upgrade would have to be exorbitant.

This doesn’t exactly bode well for supporting any of your arguments if you didn’t know something this basic.

Vikings and Franks absolutely do not need any buffs. If anything nerfs.

Persians and magyar don’t need buffs in the late game.

So if anything only byz could MAYBE get this change. Even then i still disagree since there’s other ways their tweak can be done.

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I don’t think all of this cases enter into the same idea. I mean, throwing axeman are already viable. Same as magyar hussar. In that context, I think it’s okay to have a tech that upgrade them.

I agree with persians elephants, and, I must add, Mamelukes. An UT should not be necessary in order to make an UU viable

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I get your point and agree that it would be more interesting for UTs to strengthen other units besides UUs. However, it would be hard to balance the game for the stronger civs like Franks or Vikings or even well balanced civs like Persians. Also, coming up with new UTs that don’t break game balance can be hard. Overall, I think it might be a little hard not to screw up game balance if the UTs were changed, but if done right it could be a nice change.

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Franks and Vikings absolutely do not need buffs.

Berserks already regenerate health as is, the UT just increases it. this doesn’t really help your argument, if anything it weakens it.

Persians don’t need late game buffs, if they need love anywhere its in the early game.

Instead of just saying you don’t like something, recommend how to actually fix them. yeah you gave a vague answer on how to fix the Magyar one, but even that is a very generic and lame bonus.

furthermore a lot of Unique Techs that were given out were made purposely less then stellar because the civ was already strong before it. like the Mongol and Chinese UT in castle age which don’t have strong effects.

Point isn’t to buff them but adjust them. You can take away power elsewhere or adjust the cost of the berserk/TA elite tech cost while not giving them that impactful of a UT.

How I see it is that is up to people to support productive ideas with their own ideas on the forums. For example, you could produce some of these recommendations, maybe some idea you have come across in your years in AoE2. But I like to leave it up to devs to come up with nice UTs to throw in. I just wanted to get my point across that UTs shouldn’t be designed this way, not jam my ideas down their throats. I am sure they have lot of scrapped and future ideas for the game that they can use.

Making those techs apply to more units IS A BUFF.

oh so now to offset the buff we have to nerf them elsewhere. do you see how this is a problem?
you’re changing one thing which causes us to have to change other things just to maintain balance.
its basically change for the sake of change because you don’t like how the Unique techs work.

except i’m not the one who wants this style of change, you are the one who wants it. so you should be the one proposing the changes.

“I don’t like how you made the current techs, but you should totally make new ones in the style that i envision”. see the problem with that statement?

this is entirely subjective and your own opinion. i am fine with it being this way.

seeing as they seem to be cherry picking from aoe3 for the new civs i’d say that appears to not be the case.