Thought exercise: English should not be able to build town centers and/or keeps, landmarks only

It can be done, if the longbowman player sucks, sure you can kill 8 of them with 8 horseman.

Doing some quick math 10 longbows cost 800 resources. with 800 resources you can afford only 7 horseman. I would love to see you kill 10 longbows with only 7 horseman. Maybe is possible against a player that don’t use the palings and don’t know how to hit and run, but against a good player you have not a chance.

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English are good at everything right now. They have good offense, good defense, and good economy. They are extremely op.


actually my mistake, you can only afford 5 horseman. Because to build the horseman you need at least 1 stable. but the english doesn’t need an archery range.
Go try to beat 10 longbows with 5 horseman and let me know how it goes.

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Quite a few civs we’ve seen have good econ. Their rush is too good and should be nerfed because they’re a defensive civ, but their army is generic. Their defense SHOULD be the best in the game.

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10 archers defeating 5 light cavalry with a bit micro is nothing wrong.


I think nerfing archers accuracy plus some nerf to their eco would be good. they can keep their good defensive vills.

Is wrong when there is no other counter to archers in feudal age.

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@JetDinosaur2039 I would argue that the English civ bonus is actually versatility more than anything else. During the stress test, English could pull off any strategy, change strategy with relative ease. Compare that with other civs (e.g. Abassid or Chinese), where each landmark you chose dictated how your strategy was going to play out. If you chose the wrong wing (Abassid) or dynasty (Chinese), you can not switch on a dime.

With the English, there’s no decision to be made - you go Council Hall. You can rush or raid with longbows, and change strategies if hard-countered by horseman (food/wood economy that you built towards pumping LBs works well for spearman as well) or HRE (English can match with their own early man-at-arms). I’m curious to see how Mongols or French will work against the English in multiplayer - they may counter English so well, that no English player will want to play against cav-heavy civs.

@WitchyBobcat029 I think you are correct in terms of resource commitment, with the English coming out a tiny bit ahead with resources (when accounting for the wood saved from Council Hall). Throw in palings, range, and the healing tech (campfire?), and the longbows just make more sense than horseman for raiding and certainly for defense. I’m not sure about the timing though: what’s the amount of time it takes for 1 longbow vs 1 horseman?

@borggrob As of the stress test, the micro favors the LB because of the homing arrows. In theory, you can out-micro the horses, but the horses can not out-micro the LBs. Add 1-2 spears to longbows, and the horseman have no chance. Adding archers or spears to your horseman in most scenarios doesn’t really pack the same punch.

This might all change if ranged units have a minimum range or forced into melee, in which case horseman can easily close the gap. I think in the stress test, the devs got rid of the multi-directional palings (the palings face a direction now, which make sense and allows horseman to flank) but removed the minimum range (the LBs now attacked with arrows, which make less sense).


English coming out a tiny bit ahead with resources

Is not just a tiny bit ahead. They have huge resource advantage.
The longbows are cheaper than the horseman they don’t need to build military building to create them and they don’t need to build so many outpost for defense as other civs because their villagers are quite good at defending themselves. So they save a lot of resources in total and can advance faster and have better upgrades.

Longbowmans are created extremely fast from the landmark. So they win in this aspect as well.



Let the english keep their buildings.

When i build longbowmen whit the english, i fear mangonel alot, they where devastating when i did not have fire arrows.

I also fear towers, they were devastating when i did not reseached the siege tec, to build ram on the field.

Some time, i see players rushing to build a wall.

But, when i come in whit siege tower, the wall become a nice defence position in the enemy base.

I never know why they keep their acchers on land and not on the wall.

Also, when enemy archers are on the wall, players make the mistake to oder their archers to focus attack siege tower, allowing my archer to land on wall and safely kill the enemy archers.

The cavalery charge is too much nerfed in game, since the cavalery take the time to stop and attack the archers…

The cavalery units should push the archers on the land and trample them as they pass by, keeping their chage, unless if archer put up a pike wall or if pikemen stop the charge.

After a few passage of cavalery charge, the enemy archers should be devastated.

Let the english keep their buildings and give the cavalery the capacity to keep charging trougth the enemy and trample unprotected land units.


Maybe, let land units evade cavalery charge when cavalery units is under 3 cavalery.

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Add two or three man at arms to the cavalry and it will have the same effect.

If a unique aspect of a civ makes them so overpowered you need to remove a core building like the Town Center, that’s a good indication that they actually need a different unique aspect.


@borggrob You are right: man-at-arms would make sense, but only if your civ has Feudal age man-at-arms (e.g. English or HRE). I had played a brain fart of a game where I scouted a very aggressive Council Hall outside my base before it was built and geared my economy for early man-at-arms - and then realized I was playing Abassid that did not have early man-at-arms. If you are playing as the Abbasid or Chinese, your options are to outpost up/barbican landmark, or go hard horseman counter.

@AndyPXIII I would agree, except when you consider a particularly unique civ like the Mongols, making landmarks the only way the English can add TCs is pretty run-of-the-mill. Making English choose between a Council Hall or TC at Feudal would provide at least a couple different opening moves that were not possible during the stress test (where there was no downside to going Council Hall):

  1. An early TC would allow English players to fake out an opponent expecting early LB pressure, and head into Castle with a superior economy. As of the stress test, English could easily do both, and all players in the matchup would know that without any ambiguity.
  2. An early TC would allow rushing the English to be a viable possibility or consideration. In an evenly matched game during the stress test, I would be surprised if there were very many successful rushes against the English. I would think that many players saw English as their opponent and immediately think defense.

I heavily doubt that. Once you reach critical mass of Longbows you can oneshot Horsemen so when the Horsemen reach your Longbows its no longer equal cost of units.

Besides, this doesn’t mean much because we don’t play the game by sending equal cost units against each others. Instead, we play for map control, set down our Keeps next to Holy sites, build Walls and outposts. As soon as those come into play, Horsemen become way less useful. And the English get to play with a huge advantage by being able to constantly pick off enemy units with Longbows and then retreating next to their Keep and enjoy 25% attack speed aura.

That says absolutely nothing.

So what strength are the Chinese supposed to have? No longer starting with 2 more villagers? Being able to get into Age 2 faster but with worse economy than the HRE or Abbasids? Being able to put down their Barbican of the sun which is good at defending 1 spot but the English can defend any spot with their 7 damage ranged attack villagers? The Dynasty system is a trap for everything past the 400f 200 coin investment.

And even though Chinese has a bunch of bonuses for their gunpowder units in Age 4, their actual Age 4 Landmarks are a joke compared to the Wynguard Palace. As the english all you need to do is build this Landmark and enjoy your ridiculously cheap units + 1 trebuchet every minute.

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What is it with all the recent topics about the English civilization? They have been a part of AoE2 and they are also in AoE4 for obvious reasons. It’s set in the same area so don’t really understand the whine lately about them.

When it comes to balancing all of the civilizations that will always be work in progress as players find new ways to play around and sometime can come up with some powerful ideas so I wouldn’t worry about it not being addressed post launch.


I really enjoy playing the English. It’s just that their strategy and mechanics are very predictable, and I think making their landmarks the only way to expand economically forces the English player and opponent into more interesting and consequential choices.

a bunch of French coping.

Massively nerfing the unique civ bonuses by capping keeps and making their already too generic landmarks even more generic, doesn’t make them more interesting, it, surprisingly enough, makes them even less interesting. And because you didn’t nerf rush, that’s all they would be as a civ. LB rush, and then quit if that doesn’t go well.

wow this is the first time I have actually seen someone recommend a good idea for this game.

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Oh, you like this idea. Great. We’ll put a thumbs up to PlantedMovie253 supporting these civ mechanics for the Turks when they get added.