Tiger cavalry

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I totally agree with Hera’s list of units and really think that wei cavalry is too OP. So i am forced to rush wei in feudal age hard and try to make enough eco win early, otherwise i am dead to tiger cav.

3 Likes
2

It’s funny how slim the margin for a cav UU is to be either basically useless or OP.

Maybe reduce their Attack in Castle age a bit?

1 Like
3

I would reduce first the bonus hp from kills to +5hp…

4

I don’t think the main problem with Tiger Cavalry is simply that it is too strong.

The bigger problem is its growth curve.

Area Current problem Suggestion
Kill-based growth Makes Tiger Cavalry snowball as it gets kills Remove it
Castle Age ranged armor 4 ranged armor is extremely strong this early Start at 3 ranged armor
Imperial Age ranged armor It actually falls behind relative to other late-game cavalry Increase to 4 with Plate Mail Armor
Full ranged armor Should have a clear high-end cavalry defensive identity 4+4
Melee armor Needs a clear weakness if ranged armor is this high Keep it relatively low
HP Currently tied to the growth system Normalize it
Movement speed 1.35 combined with high armor may make it too complete If Elite reaches 5+4, consider 1.3
Ming-Guang Armor Currently tied to Tiger Cavalry Move the kill-based growth to it

If Elite Tiger Cavalry is going to have 5+4 armor, I would consider reducing its movement speed from 1.35 to 1.3, with the non-Elite version also at 1.3.

This would give Tiger Cavalry a clearer identity without making it strong in every aspect.

It can be very resistant to ranged attacks, while still having lower melee armor and lower mobility as its weaknesses.

As for the technology tree, I think further changes are needed to make Wei feel more like Wei.

However, that would make this proposal much longer, so for now I’m only focusing on the changes related to Tiger Cavalry.

1 Like
5

Just remove Wei from ranked. Problem solved.

3 Likes
6

Starting at 3 ranged armor sounds like an fine change to me, but imperial age it gets 5+2==7 ranged armor (same as Paladin). If the imperial ranged armor is too low (and I don’t think it is), then adding pierce armor to elite is easier than adding the last armor tech (which affects their other cav as well, including their already-strong Hei Guang cav). Melee armor meanwhile starts at 0, and only gets high after Ming Guang armor (which affects all Cavalry)

I personally do like the idea of Tiger cav being an anti-ranged unit specialist while Hei Guang function as a strong melee unit. But going for that suggests that nerfs are better targeted in their melee combat abilities rather than their ability to survive ranged attacks (or in other words, nerfs to HP and damage rather than to pierce armor). Or to acknowledge their strength by raising their cost/train time.

I’ll also note that cavalry aren’t really defensive units. Their strength is mobility, something that’s usually better when you’re on the offensive and can use it to raid the enemy base and otherwise pick your fights. As opposed to the defensive, where picking your fights usually often means losing buildings (such as the castle you need to produce tiger cav).

7

Yeah Tiger Cavalry is a bit strong, Wu are fun though, im glad the 3 kingdom civs are here. They are so unique.

8

I worked out five Tiger Cavalry variants based on movement speed, from 1.25 to 1.45.

The slower versions have higher HP and stronger kill-based growth, while the faster versions are more expensive and less durable.

All versions get the full armor upgrades, reaching +3/+4.

Golden Crown is changed into a kill-based upgrade, unlocking the additional growth through kills.

The idea is to make mobility the main trade-off.

Speed Cost Normal Attack Normal HP Normal Armor Elite Attack Elite HP Elite Armor Attack Interval Max Growth
1.25 60F 70G 11 120 0/4 14 160 0/6 1.8s +4 Attack / +40 HP
1.30 60F 75G 11 120 0/4 13 150 0/5 1.8s +4 Attack / +40 HP
1.35 60F 80G 11 115 0/3 13 140 0/4 1.8s +3 Attack / +30 HP
1.40 70F 80G 11 110 0/3 13 130 0/4 1.9s +2 Attack / +20 HP
1.45 75F 85G 10 100 0/3 13 120 0/4 2.0s +2 Attack / +20 HP