Protip: If you dont want the Mongol player to mass 40 Mangudai with siege rams, have you tried to not let him to make castles in the first place?
With all the respect, but these discussions about nerfing units because they are OP in Imperial are just because you people just boom in your bases.
Mongols dont have anything special besides their Imp composition. Stop trying to nerf units because you have a defensive play style.
9 Likes
Until Path finding gets fixed, they should decrease the mangudai bonus vs siege units except rams, you should go to voobly or HD and play the mangudai there, they increased the delay while firing, mangudai on those versions is not a good unit, it even loses to generic arbalest.
It is hard to mass them and it is more expensive than normal cav archer, it has several counters, but then again path finding makes them OP in tight groups while fighting their natural melee counters such as the imperial camel, heavy camel and huskarls.
@Lonezwiebel
This thread would be better received if you named the topic:
āTime to change the Mangudaiā.
Probably the way is to make them more expensive just as it was done to Plumbed Archers of Mayans.
I could see the price going up by +5W (in total 60W 65G) or by +5G (in total 55W 70G).
If at the same time Steppe Lancers would get improved that would be quite okaish situation for Mongols.
1 Like
That is why you donāt mess things up
Your argument of not letting them reach imp is pretty lame to dm players. Mongols are extremely good in these settings despite lacking good heavy cav
- they donāt balance around DM.
- DM is mirror matches, so mongols being OP in DM doesnāt impact anything.
7 Likes
Pretty sure the game isnāt balanced around DM
7 Likes
Mangudais being a bad unit on HD/WK might be the single worst take Iāve seen in these forums, and thatās saying quite a lot.
Are you seriously saying that the ranged unit with the fastest fire rate in the game, 12 attack, bonus vs siege, high HP and speed suddenly became bad because it received a +5 frame delay nerf ?
11 Likes
imo hunters should be nerfed to -50% food, thats right negative 50%. you feed the boars and deer that way its more balanced.
6 Likes
Thatās not how you balance things. 3 big nurfs at the same time is way too much for any unit.
This is the problem with most balance suggestions.
Something is too weak ? Suggest 4 diffrent buffs.
Something is strong ? nurf it to the groundā¦
6 Likes
I donāt know when you have queued for ranked DM matches, but for me I didnāt get mirror matches.
Balancing this game only for pro tournament level i disagree with fundamental.
Singleplayer, low elo, average elo, pros, teamgames, 1v1, rm and DM. All of these are important and none should be completely forgotten. It is always a compromise when balancing and no one game mode and player group should be put above all and be the only considered for balanceā¦
Rm is surely more important but DM should nit be completely ignored eitherā¦I
1 Like
Itās literally impossible to balance around low skill players without causing huge issues to Pro level balance.
take archers for example - low elo players donāt even micro them, so to make them decent for low skill players they would have to have high damage output to make them valuable.
now if you take those same archers with high damage output, and put it in the hands of Hera, you have high dps archers involved in hit and run tactics/split micro slaughtering everything.
2 Likes
One can try instead of claiming its impossible from the start. I we are brave we can improve the situation and do changes instead of refusing the existence of a possibility and just defend the status quo
okay tell me. how do you make archers viable around people who donāt even micro them, without breaking them at the highest level.
this is clearly important to you, and since you want to balance the game around everyone, tell me how we do it.
Iāll tell you straight up that people at low skill levels arenāt losing because they ransomed into koreans while their opponent got mayans.
2 Likes
You canāt just come up with an unfair example and force me to solve it. Of course archers arenāt as great as in pro hands. I donāt have a problem with this.
Anyway I was talking more about the general mindset in the above. I never claimed I have all the answers, only that I think we should be willing to try.
For example war elite war Elefants are crazy strong when allowed to mass, to the point in those noob game settings they are unfair since you are often allowed to mass their.
an solution could be that they cost 2 pop for example. Would balance DM and those noob games better and would only sliglty affect pro games. But if I proposed this you would just say pros donāt use war Elefants already so no need to nerf or something similar I assume.
Actually it is fair. You are the one who wants the game to be balanced around everyone.
And no, 2 pop war elephants would make them even worse at the highest level because they already get wrecked by monks and pikes as is. Youād be making them half as effective, if not worse
And this is exactly why you donāt halance around people who wait to post imp to attack. Because thry put themselves in terrible positions and blame balance.
You didnāt lose to war Elephants because of balance.
You lost because of bad play. There was any number of things you could have done to prevent losing to mass elephants
5 Likes
War Elephant is only viable if you have a huge food and gold income and you have massive trade.
Stop nerfing everything you believe is unbalanced
Iām not joking here, if they do this to any unit (like they did to AOE3) Iām gonna leave the game and never come back to it
Stop trying to turn AOE2 into AOE3
6 Likes
i decided to fix this for you!
3 Likes
2 pop War elephants would negate the only thing theyāre good at; population efficiency. The ridiculous amount of farmers you need + trade carts+ lumberjacks, and then youāre left with whatever pop divided by half. Yeah that sounds very bad to me.
While Iām no DM expert, I doubt Mongols are good as you claim. Building castles still takes time and producing units that need almost half a minute to produce. Maybe the drill siege is good but I doubt Mangudai is what defines them in DM
7 Likes
The problem with Mongols and DM is, their speedy SO combined with mangudai siege snipe. You need to go SO yourself and BBC which both get snipped by the Mongols mangudai and great hussars.
If you donāt have good heavy cav you are mostly screwed.
War Elefants cost could be reduced to account for the 2 pop cost increase. Positive for everyone. They are more cost efficient but less pop efficient (which is the problem form my point of view). Pros could afford it more and noobs could mass it less.
So new cost 2 pop, and - 30 food
By the way, aoe 3 is a great game too and not everything is bad in there.