If you watched the video there were lots of crossbows and elite skirms but they all got massacred by 8 mangudai. Like ten vils die in 2-3 seconds as well.
I know a lot of the comments say - oh you should let you’re opponent get to mangudai - and I’m thinking yeah, when there’s like 20-30 mangudai like in an arena game eg, things are gonna get tough. But like 8 mangudai killing knights crossbows archers and vils nearly instantly seems a bit OP.
The counter sounds more like kill mongols in feudal age, because if they get a castle up and 8-9 mangudai you’re in trouble. I know they were in imp at the end of the video, but they still weren’t even elite mangudai yet
Im still in the demographic that thinks paladins should be nerfed. Yes they have counters. But just the simple fact that they are fielded so much in TGs means there’s something wrong in the power dynamic.
Part of it is the number of buffs Franks get(or the strength of the teuton paladin) but even generic paladins are still fielded too much.
I know players have lived with them for 20yrs and everyone hates their favourite meta to be hurt since they hate learning new things…
But i think paladins need a speed reduction for one (they have immensely more armour than a cavalier how can they move at the same speed) it also gives non paladin cavalry civs a slight edge.
Yes Franks have an uber unit but the downside is the farimba cavalier will out run.
After a speed reduction we could see how they fair and then potentially nerf their hp by 10 or something.
We could even nerf them more but then also reduce their upgrade cost making them more accessible in 1v1 but not as over powering in TGs
Team games are all about pop efficient units, so it’s normal the most pop efficient units are on the top, and paladins are more available than eles or some specific UUs.
Since old school players are more in favour of going random, I would say they are the one who wouldn’t have trouble adapting, as by going random you’re eventually bound to get stuff like korean pocket + frank and teuton flanks.
Easy way to answer your question: ask people if they’d rather have a Teuton or Malian pocket. Those who answer Malian will add something like: “I love their camels”.
There’s real variance on how Paladin civs perform though. Some like the Byzantines Franks, Teutons and Celts perform well and then you have Magyars and Persians where they are towards the bottom of the win rates
I think the bigger problem in TG is the availability of gold makes them much easier to mass so maybe nerfing trade a bit is the answer you are looking for to reduce their availability / pop efficiency?
comparitively they still sit pretty high up the pick rate, which means players still perceive them as powerful regardless of their average win rates.
i wonder if nerfed trade would reduce the spamming of paladins, but it would surely affect eles as well.?
with an absolutely overwhelming NINE PERCENT pick rate for franks for paladins thats 200% higher than it should be… maybe if anything just franks need a nerf?
paladin civs are still the highest contenders for highest pick rates due to their pop efficiency…
of course its normal, it doesnt mean its right that paladins are more effective in a team game than any other unit … there should be some draw backs to allow non paladin civs to also compete for pick rate
but you are literally one of the people i spoke of in my previous post about rejecting change, you have literally been against almost every single change to the game, even after it was changed thus proving you wrong, so its pointless you and i even have this discussion
Just what I said then: people would much rather have slow teuton palas than faster farimba cavaliers.
Only thing that need a nerf is the Spirit of the Law vids were he rub in everyone’s face that Franks were n.1 on aoestats by winrates. The good reputation must be sticking just like the Tatar’s bad rep still haunts them.
That’s the point. It’s like complaining people pick more early game civ in RM.
eles, eagles, siege deathballs, mass mangudai/HCA, and UUs can shine in teamgames too. If you nerf paladins, what will happen is that people will dismiss them and just find a new “meta” unit to go for all the time. So after the change we will have th “new meta unit” being the star while palas will just be one comp among the previously mentioned ones, and the cycle will repeat.
Non exhaustive list of changes I’ve never been against:
1.Khmer, Goths, Vietnamese buffs when and where they were needed
2.Cataphracts upgrades getting cheaper
3.Portuguese/Korean buffs
4.If Arabia could stop becoming Arena by minute 8 that would be dandy too
I don’t play TGs really so would have to defer to you if it affects Persian Eles too much. I don’t really find Paladins that oppressive in 1vs1 given halberds + camels are more widely available then before but would like to find something that works for both modes
The easiest would be lowered trade income to limit the usage of high gold units given that only affects TGs but for the Franks maybe they could remove the HP bonus and replace with free bloodlines? Otherwise could remove HP bonus, maybe or maybe not let them research bloodlines and give them a food discount on knight line? They would have the cheapest paladins but only in terms of food - not sure if that works?
The Franks have also been consistently strong in 1vs1 so would ok with some nerf to them. Though hopefully not a massive one given they seem very reliant on Paladin
Perhaps you should read your own posts before replying.
This is the most ridiculous thing you have said in the entire post and shows once again that you don’t know what you are talking about.
Here is a video from Hidden Cup 3 with two absolute nobodies known as Hera and Tatoh using hussars + mangudai…guess they must be newbies if they do that!
Not enough? Search in t90 channel or whichever streamer you like for more mongols games. Whenever it gets to late game, it’s basically always about hussar meatshield + mangudais (+ some siege).
because this is a game, not real life, otherwise china would decimate everyone with its access to technology that its missing in the game… mesos would be unrecognizable to their fictional representations…
For context, you didn’t include the smiley I used at the end of my comment. I guess I assumed that by using a smiley that people reading the comment wouldn’t take it literally. I assumed wrong.
Like? Drill, mangudai upgrades and hussar upgrade alone drains most of the mongol coffers, so don’t say SO because it’s not really affordable on open maps or effective on open
According to aoestats. Mongol has already below 50% winrate. Their weak midgame is just showed in that stats at low winrate.
Civs with strong eco bonus can easily deny mongol to castle up and mass mangudai.
They are far from one of the stongest civ. Franks, Britons, Aztecs, Mayans, etc. plenty of civs are stronger 1v1 civ than mongol.
Buffing steppe lancer cannot be compensate for Mongol. Lacking last armor upgrade means it is useless in Imperial Age.
They are also slightly below 50% in 1650+ winrate
