Tips for defeating the Mexican heavy cavalry unit Chinaco with musket infantry for treaty games
The fully upgraded Mexican heavy cavalry unit Chinaco can be very difficult for musket infantry to defeat Chinaco in ranged attack in treaty games. Units with a range multiplier against heavy cavalry, such as the Swedish Carolean, should attack Chinaco from a range. Musket infantry, which has a hand attack multiplier at close range against heavy cavalry, must fight in hand attack mode against Chinaco. Since Chinaco attacks from range, musket infantry cannot fight in hand attack mode. Musket infantry must attack from close range to defeat Chinaco. In this case, the player must put the musket infantry into hand attack mode. In hand attack mode, musket infantry kills Chinaco easily. At the very least, musket infantry fighting on the front lines must fight against Chinaco strictly in hand attack mode.
This was a funny readđ
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I think the issue here is Musketeers technically counter Chinacos in melee from a cost efficiency standpoint, but the range of Chinacos make things play out surprising poorly for the Musketeers as armies get bigger. They canât all or even mostly get into melee which means the majority do too little while the Chinacos do full damage.
Musks still win overall, but itâs a much smaller benefit than a counter should win by. That significantly throws off the rock-paper-scissors. Itâs like having paper that beats rock and ties with scissors while the other playerâs paper still loses to scissors.
Lancers are a similar case, but they lose to Hussars. That sets up an alternate counter system with similar opportunities to counter it available, just from different units. Late game Chinacos trade about even with Hussars, or at an advantage.
Iâm unsure if Chinacos would be a problem in treaty if the same unit was given to another civ (like Spain), but Mexico effectively has the power of a 155pop army which amplifies all advantages. They also have one of the strongest skirms in treaty, solid Musks, and Goons, and I believe their artillery benefit from a +20% attack bonus from the flag.
Iâve brought up the pop advantage a few times when arguing about treaty balance, but no one on the âMexico is fineâ side ever seems to refute the point. People will bring up the Dutch with 140 military pop, but that fails to account for the fact that the Dutch have a significantly weaker eco and at least slightly weaker army.
The 15 Conqs and 16-20 Aztecs added to the 115 military pop on a civ with extremely strong units is too much.
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the Conquistadors and Aztec troops should cost pop just like French royal units or Germany prince elector units for sure.
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Prince elector also still bugged on the oldenburg counter skirm vil in regards to population costâŠ
I donât mind the free guaranteed indigenous mechanic on incas, as incas have been harshly nerfed but mexico?
Drummers should also cost 1 pop if the British Drummers do so.
Prince elector units shouldnât be limited units period beyond the drummer and the vil skirm.
The issue with Chinacos is also their speed. Units with charged attacks shouldnt be fast
Same happens with the maya unit with the AoE attack. They hit and run toooooooo effectively
now i realize how to settle this repeating dumb topic once and for all.
Dev should make Mexican DLC free for everyone and force them to play at least 1 Mexican game per game activations.
Do note that the kind of armies of musketeers that managed to win vs massed chinacos only happen in treaty, with fully upgraded muskets(which require 4 cards or 3 cards plus age up).In supremacy, needing 3 muskets to beat a chinaco is very very bad and will almost never happen in timing pushes. This is why chinaco is considered OP.
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No argument from me here. They are definitely an issue in team games as well. I was mostly just stating that in treaty, Iâm not sure if theyâd be an issue on a âlow popâ civ (ie 101 military pop). Currently itâs the worst of all worlds because the Mexicans are a 115 army pop with an extra like 40 pop worth of natives and a great eco.
I think things could be done to help Mexico in 1v1 while nerfing their late game. The Lance card should probably just add 0.5x against Infantry to Chinacos, the charged attack should do the same damage as the normal attack just with the 2 AoE, and the guard upgrade should probably just give +30% attack and hitpoints. If all three of those were done, a small base HP and attack increase would be reasonable. Theyâre a bit underwhelming in earlier ages while being absolutely nuts late game.
Then we definitely need to add a pop cost to some of the native allies gotten from the card alliances.
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so⊠You want to have your unitsâŠMusketeers. That Chinacos eat for breakfast? Well⊠the problem is you canât. However if you have no choice. For Example Brit/Portugal. You may need to put out Goons to cover your for your muskets. Because Monocomps dont work often.
The thing is though. Chinacos. Are melee units. MELEE. Remove that somehow by walling constantly to keep them at range. Dont let them get close to skirmishers. If they do get near your musketeers. Be sure they are in range of your towers. Towers deal bonus damage to Cavalry. Having a lot of them in your frontline helps a lot.
Consider cards like Extensive FortificationâŠAnd 1 more thing. The AOE attack of Chinacos kills units that counter it too. So you need to kite your dragoons and be sure they are in good position or they will die.
<3 Goodluck Sir and show these fancy pants DLC pay to win Lancers who is boss!