Tips with mongol in team games

Hello, just started to play mongols.

I am a team game player, and I’ve found that the tipical tower rush against civs like french, jeanne, HRE, for example is very good. But I’m thinking this wouldn’t work against english.

So, in your experience, what are the best openings with mongols in team games, against which civs?

I’m testing with very good results the tower rush to civs who rely on gold, or who want to go for a fast castle as french or HRE, but I still haven’t tried this against english (pretty sure won’t work), or ayyubids, for example.

Thank you.

If not tower rush early horseman can work, otherwise a heavy trade boom, they can fast castle. Honestly they are pretty forgiving especially with their safe eco and double production, you can change it up pretty easy.

1 Like

Usually you go with 2TC? I’m playing them with just a TC the whole game, the firsts 10 minutes are good, but then I feel their eco weak.

Just when I can trade at my own I feel a great income.

Id say its alot better to go with trade over 2tc for mongols

I recently played with one who played Mongol very well: He got to imperial before everyone and was sieging great… but out of nowhere he gave up and acting like a #### from League of Legend, h started blaming all the team in the chat group “After Surrender” and fill the comment box with pure spam, saying things like "I’m a very good enemy team, but my teammates are (censored word) (I’m left with the doubts with which words he used to insult us) .

I say: if you’re going to give up, at least then get out of it, don’t start cutting off others if you’re going to be the first to abandon like a crybaby.

In fact, recently I’ve noticed a lot of Toxicity (a LoL term) in team games that hasn’t happened to me since LOL before I left it. Are they migrants to this game? Because I remember playing ranked team last year and I didn’t find so many pedantic people.

In fact, I’m going to take that kind of initiative, tell them “This is not LoL”, complain a lot is not going to make you rise in ranked team, you only earn people’s hatred and worsen your own playing style.

I appreciate your comment, but sincerely I don’t know what has to do with the thread. I’m asking for mongols openinga in team games against different combination of civs.

If you know some particular effective opening I’d like to know.

1 Like

I play mongols in team games more like French mostly. Go feudal and spam keshiks, go raid everyone. Go for archers in your base to defend against spears and start trading.

1 Like

Oh, i have many tips for every time you play with mongols allies for the plays i have with them.

  • "If you are its neighbour, Wall its border": Well, I think one of the most useful things in “Team” if you are a Mongol would be to ask your allies to “Walled” your part of the map, especially on turtleneck maps. It helps a lot, but there are allies who don’t know, and you have to tell them.

  • Also, while “Gold Pit Map” is available in Ranked, since there are no neutral markets, building a “Map -Corner - Market” or a market closest to the edge of an ally’s wall is vitally important, especially with Civs who have bonuses trading, like Mongols and Frenchs.

  • Finally, "Protect the mongols if the enemies attacks their base": They are very squishy in defences if the enemy team attack with a group of 4 player vs 1 (I dont remember the term for that) or even 2 vs 1, so is very possible that you have for the rest of the game a mongol ally in one of the corner of tour city, that works in civs wich not require much City planning like Chinese, Joan DArc,French, English, but in civs wich need planning like Chinese, ZhuXi, Bizantines, this can be catastrophic, so is better to help the nearby Mongol ally so that this never happens.

Dumb question. How do you trade boom with them?

Aging with silver tree and slowly get towers in the trade line. Pump traders always if u can. Silvertree is like 2 markets and with the yam aura from towers your trade is stronger then the trade of other civs, maybe excluding mali with trade network.

1 Like

Hi @joanka93val

I love how you get 10 replies, but nobody answers your question in an organised way.

To start, I’m no conqueror player, but I do main mongol at a plat/diamond level and play a lot of 3v3s. I think 4v4 is too much. I like 2v2, but mainly stick to 3v3.

My advice regarding openers is to look at opponent civs and your own, and decide what to do. For example, if your team has 2 aggressive civs, and they have 2 castle rush civs, be aggressive with your team against a castle rush civ to slow them down. If they have boomy civs, and you have castle rush civs with you, I usually try to trade boom (silver tree plus a market) while protecting relics so my castle rush team can collect relics.

Tower rush works in 2v2, and works in 3v3 if you have an aggressive civ (especially ottoman) with you to attach the position. In 4v4 the map is too big so the tower rush is delayed usually. Tower rushing a castle rush civ is great. I almost never tower rush English (archer villagers), Chinese (barbican builds too fast), Ottoman (free spearsmen), and Jeanne D’arc (you are just feeding her experience by fighting her). Someone else may differ or reply to me here, but that’s my opinion. As said, I’m plat/diamond.

I also oftentimes (especially vs japanese with other non-aggressive civs on their team) open a stable (no ovoo), 2 vills to food, 3 to wood, and get an early horseman. Scout an opponent gold and send the horseman to the gold to start killing vills. I try to weaken each villager with the khan slightly before the horseman, so it takes one less horseman attack to kill it. Depending on the matchup and my allies, I might make a scout or two for torch damage, save for an ovoo, or follow up with a tower. It’s adaptable but you will have a very delayed feudal timing. To prevent this being scouted, after the first horseman is made you can pack up the stable and hide it. I welcome other readers to comment here, as I don’t have this optimised.

If all opponents are castle rush civs, then I usually try to also castle rush but have some units behind it to deny relics. Once I’m in castle, I use superior mobility and move my prayer tents around to pick up relics quickly with my shamens. It’s a lot of control, and bit of hotkey remapping, but it is lovely. Alternatively, you can let your allies castle rush and try to trade boom behind it. Be sure though, to defend your trade, and that your allies will also help you defend it. Otherwise, you’ll lose quickly. Learn to use the /101 “Build walls here” taunt and to ping the neutral market, so that you allies build walls for your trade.

If you want to scout the map and pick up sheep, without bringing the khan back. I usually build an ovoo, and gather 150 for a pasture at the ovoo early. The increased production pasture then helps you have secure food income early game.

I can provide more advice from there depending on your style for mid-game and late game. However, as you asked for openers I’ll stop here.

1 Like

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. I noticed by my own tower rushing jeanne is not good after trying a few times.

The first time I tried went good, but then the other times I just get the two Jeanne players farming my spears.

If you want to elaborate more, feel free to do it. I’m in a high diamond/ low conqueror level, but I main mainly boom civs. I’d like to learn mongols so I can choose also a raid/rush civ, and they seem fun to play.

Hi @joanka93val

Sweet. Well, as I’ve already gone through some openers I’ll skip early game.

Mid game
Now it’s time to determine after your opener, if you’ll go long feudal, 2TC, trade boom, or fast castle. As your level is higher than mine, this is matchup dependent and I can trust you to judge the matchup.

Long Feudal, 1TC
This means you’ll probably go Deer Stones and raid the opponent as much as you can. Whilst in my style I like to get improved eco upgrades, you can also just make units if you need instead. If you’re getting rushed or are attacking with allies, this can be good. Slowly get all eco and military ups before even thinking about castle age. Siege engineering is amazing here, to take down towers. Usually I’ll get +1 range defense then siege engineering. Since you’re going long feudal, at least one enemy will probably have castle age siege before you. I usually suggest improved siege engineering so you can make springalds once you’re also in Age III.

2 or more TC
Most other civs will out boom you, but if you’re against aggressive civs and are going infantry based, this build can have its place. Refer to this youtube video for the build. Divine DFP 2TC build

You will eventually have to change to trade, and let your allies take golds around the map with keeps. So this usually is not my preferred strategy, but is definitely matchup dependent.

Trade Boom
This is great on good trade maps, like Hill and Dale where everyone builds walls and turtles up. Unless you scout multiple opponents going feudal pressure, you can go for this. Silver tree, make 2 markets, use stone to make traders. To rally traders, select all markets, right click onto the market you want them to trade from, then hold shift and right click on the neutral market. Sit back, macro up. Rally any units you make to defend trade, and tell allies to help you defend trade. If your trade is scouted and shut down, you lose. If not, you take over in the long run. Relics are nice, but trade boom takes a lot of gold delaying your castle age. Plus, one of your allies is probably taking the relics anyways, and the silk road plus late game stone trade is amazing so you don’t need it. Be sure to make your next ovoo, and keep double producing traders by moving the market with it (or making a 3rd market at the next ovoo). Once you get to late game and have a lot of infrastructure, you’re unstoppable if your trade is secure. However, it’s really hard to do and get there without dying. Be sure to spam bombard towers.

Water trade boom
If I’m on Canal or Volcanic island, water trade booming is much better than land trade booming (trade ships are faster, and give wood and gold and silk road). I almost never make fishing ships anymore. On Canal, open ovoo, double produce a pair of horsemen and a pair of scouts (for torch damage) in the dark age. Torch down and tower rush enemy docks. Age up to Age II (landmark doesn’t matter so much), get piracy, and build your dock at the end of a canal. Tell an ally to build a dock at the other end for trade. Take water taking engagements near the tower you had. Piracy helps your economy and then the trade ships help it even more. Improved eco wood upgrades are also great. To defend land, make a couple demo ships and keep tabs on the enemy position. If they push your docks or base, they have to cross the canal and you can blow their army up with demo ships. Build towers along the canal trade line to secure trade. If defended, you’re unstoppable.

Fast Castle
Largely described in first post. Opponents will usually get to castle before you. So get to castle yourself, research superior mobility while aging up to Age III. Age up with the Steppe Redoubt (since you don’t really have much trade going), and move prayer tents around as much as you can to get relics as fast as you can. If you can manage to get more than 4 of the 9 relics (in 3v3), consider yourself very successful, and be happy if you get 3 of them. Try to take contested relics first, and don’t go for relics along enemy reinforcing lines if they are pushing a location. Your Shamen will just die from reinforcements.

mid and late game note
If you have allies are in trouble, Usually you can cut off reinforcement lines with your raiding units and this is enough. However, if they’re losing the engagement because they can’t get siege up, just make a few springalds and send them to help your ally. With the best springalds in the game, kill all enemy siege, then usually your ally can kill the units off from their defensive position. All you have to do is kill enemy siege and you’re set. Lastly, if enemy units are the issue, first help your ally out but then build 2-3 bombard towers where the enemy is pushing. This helps your ally immensely.

Late game
To be unstoppoable in imperial, you will have ~10 of each barracks, archery ranges, and stables with ~3 siege workshops. You’ll have secure trade, white stupa, and rush up improved stone commerce. You’ll have a blacksmith, a siege workshop, an archery range, a stable, a ger, and a market in the influence of an Ovoo (If I build white stupa, I’ll go ahead and build these around it). Priority is improved stone commerce, then improved roller shudder triggers, and then any other improved upgrade as you can afford it between making bombard towers.

If you’re on the most terrible of terrible economies, your allies didn’t help defend you, and you have low population, the Khanganate palace is usually a better decision. This takes a lot of control to use the units correctly, but you can raid with the free units as much as you can, and your extra siege that spawns can help you allies armies. If you have the K-palace, the only siege you need to make is springalds since the K-palace Nest of Bees and Hui Hui Pao already. The K-palace is very situational though.

Post imperial tech switches
So you’ve got secure trade, and most of the improved upgrades, but it’s a macro fest and is hard to end. You’ve got bombard towers in key positions, and are pushing with your towers. So what now?

Well, there are two tech switches late game which are also very powerful.

First is the mongol double produced rams (similar to RUS wandering town rams) With improved greased axles and improved lightweight beams, they are actually better than the RUS rams if you do the math and double produce them. To do this, get Monastic shrines and put siege workshops around the prayer tent. You may have to move buildings around to do this. Improved stone bounty and improved raid bounty helps this too, because your rams pay themselves off.

Second is after the enemy walls have been worked down by whatever means (and maybe, even going rams first to break them). While breaking the walls down, reposition your buildings so that your archery ranges are in ovoo and prayer tent monastic shrine influence. Cancel all unit production, doulble produce mangudai for a tech switch, run through and to the back and wreck the enemy economy. I’ve never had someone not GG from this.

If you’re really sneaky, combine the two. Put mangudai inside the rams, work the walls down. The enemy thinks its just a couple rams, but once through unload the mangudai and then wreck their economy. However, I’ve never done this, but theorycrafting it would be really cool.

Regarding a wonder, I usually find myself wood starved. So this is hard. But if you try to go wonder, selling/buying can work (but usually your wood price is crazy vs gold since you’ve been buying it all game long anyway to get infrastructure going alongside gathering it with vills). If you have a player that went golden gate, send them your gold, tell them to exchange it for wood, and send wood to you. If not, then just keep buying wood and eventually you’ll have enough for a wonder. Build wonder, tell allies to defend it, tower and defend 1 sacred site to prevent sacred site victory counter to wonder victory, and you’re set.

Closing notes
Mongol (and Malian, if they use Mansa quarry) are the only civs (I think) with unlimited and decently fast gather rate of late game stone ever since the tithe barns stone nerf. Spamming bombard towers with a few springalds to kill siege to keep bombard towers alive works wonders. Once you’ve defended economy and your allies with bombard towers, it’s hard to lose. However, getting there is also extremely hard. To secure your trade, don’t be afraid to go for a smaller or non-optimal trade route. Since you have silk road (+10% gold), a non-optimal trade route is still viable.

I love this civ, and I love it in team games. I know I’m learning, but due to team games late game, I find it improved my late game in 1v1 immensely. Too bad team games taught me late game mongol, because early and mid game isn’t my specialty and that’ why my 1v1 is usually plat level.

I welcome anybody who has comments to this, as I’d love to improve.

@joanka93val I have a lot of trouble vs. 2 TC Song Dynasty and RUS booms, so if you want to connect and practice in game, let me know and I’m keen. If I could improve vs. Boom civs, I think I’d get into diamond and stay there, but have a chance to push conqueror as mongols.

1 Like

Hey, very nice post, so useful. I will try most of the strats you mentioned in quick match.

Deer stones indirectly improve your eco by giving more speed to your vills right?

1 Like

Yes, deer stones makes your villager eco indirectly better. It’s good for long 1 or 2TC feudal, as well as rushing castle. Otherwise, I go silver tree for any trade boom. If I’m versing infantry based civs (i.e. HRE), then I almost always go silver tree.

Deer stones doesn’t really scale well later game though, because many people forget it. However, I do hotkey it as a landmark and move it around with the Kurultai often. I’ll place both for buffs prior to taking fights, so that I have both the speed and attack boost during the fight. Each landmark for packing/unpacking takes its own control group (I remapped it to my mouse buttons). Unfortunately, putting both of them on the same control group doesn’t work well.

A tip for trader micro – to change them all to a new market or select all traders (for whatever reason), use the select all units hotkey, then left click on the trader icon. Although I wish there was a “select all traders” and “select all idle traders” hotkey, this is my workaround.

Let me know if you want to connect in game, I’d love the practise.

1 Like

Send me a DM with your id and I’ll add you. I will be a bit busy for the next days and probably won’t be able to play until next week.

I’m main Abbasid, we can try this. Also I play team games with a friend who is between plat 1-plat3, if you willing to play with us you can join also. I usually play abbasid or japan, and he always plays rus.

Thanks for the info.