it’s not really a heated topic, it keeps being brought up, the vast majority of people agree, and then there are one or two people who feel the need to tell the rest of us that the developers shouldn’t add this OPTION that we are all asking for.
Then everyone responds to that person because their argument is so easily refuted that no one can resist responding.
The usual suspects are:
“you will never be satisfied!” - no, we will be satisfied when it is fixed.
The game can’t handle it! - yes it can, it’s 2022 our computers can handle more zoom, and hacks prove it.
Only a minority want it! It’s a waste of time - demonstrably false, and a completely subjective opinion.
No, the game doesn’t need a change of the zoom level.
The units are barely recognizable at the current zoom level, and they will become one big mess if zoomed out more.
Supporting a new zoom level would require serious changes to the visual and UX side of the game, which requires a lot of time and resource investment and doesn’t bring comparable improvements to the gameplay.
The entire game is designed around even more zoomed in level than we currently have right now.
People that play Aoe2 DE would be in shock if they had to play the HD version and its close zoom
In Aoe4 what bothers me more is the silhouette of the units and pathfinding. In the previous games you could easily see details on units while moving them every angle possible. Aoe4 units is like dolls with colors
I actually decided to go back to the OG AoE1 yesterday and play it without any patches or tweaks using the original 800 x 600 and it was a struggle at first, but thanks to how horrible the pathfinding was and how few units you have to deal with the pop limit at 50, it worked alright.
Going from that to Rise of Rome in HD and patched is a shock, and from that to AoE4 rattles the mind. It is a lot less to do with the zoom level than with visibility and weird responses from units.
imagine we used to play in 10801024 resolution, before HD
Imagine, they keep original resolution 11
yes, let’s making excuses, like we stopped in 2001 forever, with 10801024 res and network latency in 1s
Every other 3D rts you can name since 2000s could keep at least acceptable visuals when zoomed out. Are you implying that’s beyond the capability of a 2020s dev team?
Ironically those who support the current state of the game like to accuse the critics for “hating” and “insulting” the devs, but they also like to keep implying the devs just cannot do something that have been done without any problem for more than 10 years (which is probably the biggest insult ever).
BTW you should first have a debate with the “if people can zoom out they will always use maximum zoom” guy because if the graphics is so horrible, people will not always use the maximum zoom.
I mean, sure, there could be technical arguments against it, but all I’m seeing is a group of people who want more, and a group of people who are fine with it as it is. Neither are wrong.
Personally, I don’t mind either way (even though I think the zoom is intentional regardless of how previous Age games did it), but I’d prefer them to focus on the roadmap as-is. Particularly modding tools. I don’t want the tools pushed back at all, for anything, if at all possible.
It’d be nice if this could be debated without people lobbing accusations at each other, but I guess that’s just how it is.
If the game cannot provide us with recognizable units and buildings simultaneously to providing us with necessary zoom levels to comfortably navigate and see, then the game is a failure of design heretofore never before suffered by this franchise.
It is not the job of the players to choose between two evils.
He said it. The units are already not recognizable at the current zoom and will be a total mess if zoomed out, and the context is it has been done with no problem for 20 years in other games.
Ask him.
BTW the argument here has been around either “they cannot make the game run properly with more zoom” or “the game is designed with the current zoom level and we all know you cannot enjoy the game with different zoom so it’s good for you”.
So if you are fine with either I do not know what is the purpose of your essay.
I agree that it is remedially frustrating to continuously ask for features that have existed in Age of Empires for 25 years and be told our expectations are radical.
I mean, that’s their opinion on how readable the units might be. It’s not “the developers can’t do this”. It’s why they shouldn’t, in their opinion. Not the same thing at all.
But I get it. It’s easier to make enemies of different opinions than try to understand them. I’m not being snide - it genuinely is. But that’s not a good discussion.
Radical? Not at all.
Though it is surprising that there doesn’t seem to be any consideration that the limits are intentional. Endless posts on how “no RTS games limit you this much” when every RTS game Relic have made as far back as Impossible Creatures is comparable.
I understand that previous Age games come with different expectations. But is that it? It should be done because it was done before? Is that good enough to void any possible reason why it exists as it does right now?
That’s what I don’t see much of. Genuine, good faith discussion on why it might be as it is. Of course, we’re all guessing given that only Relic can give us the answer. But at least discussing possible reasons is fun! We all mostly know where each of us stand, no? That bit’s been done to death. I’m just trying to push the needle a bit.
Looking they made a game most to please themselves than the playerbase. Spending too much working in a title that they got used and stagnated since then…
Taking the any unit from Aoe2 and even 20 years ago you could see details on the back of a longbowman or mangudai. And now with zoom its still good (if not better with all QoL included).
You take a spearman from Aoe2 or any unit from Aoe 1 or 3 with a generic name and the unit has its charm. We take any unit on this game with generic name and the details enhance the bad impressions on this, no potential even for meme (can we imagine someone taking a unit from here and making a meme channel with such unit and then getting bigger with analysis).
the game is a failure of design heretofore never before suffered by this franchise
Previous Age of Empires games are 2D games with sprite graphics.
Which is much more readable than almost any 3D game could be.
The only 3D RTS game that ever came close to the readability levels of 2D games is StarCraft 2, and it had 10 years of continuous updates to reach the state it is in right now.
And it has much more close zoom than AoE 4.
The only AoE game that has 3D graphics is AoE 3, and it has the same or even closer zoom level compared to AoE 4.
It’s always a compromise between readability, ability to control your instruments and the quality of the game visuals on the one side, and the zoom level on the other.
There is no easy solution to this problem, even with infinite time and resources.
Which we don’t have.
If someone thinks the are already not recognizable, and it would look worse if zoomed out, it naturally implies he thinks the devs have already done a poor job and cannot improve it.
Or do you think it’s the other way round? “The units are not recognizable. If you zoom out more they are even more recognizable. But I also believe they can make it good looking with more zoom.”
Would anyone hold such an opinion? Maybe you would.
BTW you ask me who said it. I pointed out who said it for you. Now you’re accusing me for making enemies?
Vanilla aoe3, which is one of the previous aoe games, was released in 2005 and there is actually an option to allow much more zoom. Seems technology and design has not improved since then.
Age of mythology is also a 3D RTS, within this franchise, and has more zoom.
Same for AOE online.
Starcraft 2 was released in 2010, and obviously aoe4 is also made with technologies 12 years ago and skipped the entire 12 years of technical advances.
And aoe3 DE implemented an even more further zoom and nobody has any problems with it.
Yes. Mainly because it’s unplayable as it is. If they make it better, would it be unplayable for others? No.
So…
Why defend the zoom limit?.. Who wants, can always zoom in!
This.
It is what it is. Unplayable to some, like me and quite a few people I know of.
And it’s not a thing, it’s THE thing.
And… why no let zoom out more so each player can decide the “readable zoom” for himself…?