Imagine you were playing a game where you could only advance to the Feudal Age and were stuck there. What would the top and bottom 5 civs be in this situation and why? I think I know #1 easily.
maybe franks? fast berry, free farm upgrade, strong scouts for all in attack
or cumans that can have 2 TC boom if they can somehow get that up withotu dying
Cumans, Magyars, Franks. Perhaps Goths, as you might be able to take down a TC with the extra damage on infantry. Ethiopians might be another option.
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I also thought the Lithuanians might be up there too, with their faster spearmen and skirmishers.
Actually, scouts only get +9 HP from the bonus, so any civs with Bloodlines are twice as good.
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Actually, Burgundians. Best eco out of any civ.
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Sicilians? Less bonus damage, donjons and sargeants. More durable farms
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Oh yeah, I thought of them too. Good one!
I feel like everyone is sleeping on the Gurjaras. Having access to camels in Feudal is invaluable when you’re stuck there.
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The meta will favor military discounts, scouts, and towers. Without the ability to click up every match will be all in feudal so unit discount are more impactful. Food will be cheaper since you don’t need to save for castle age and are stuck on 1 TC’s so scouts should be more prevalent. Without access to siege, walled towers will basically untouchable without other towers.
Without contest Cumans are the best pick they have two TC’s and the ability to make battering ram. Burgundians with access to castle age Eco upgrades with the only thing against them is lacking bloodlines. Celt get +15% on infantry in a meta without squires. Byzantines are a strong contender but they lack Bloodlines. Teuton with their farm discount and extra garrison space could also be a contender. Incas and Magyars with their food discount should also be good. Persians might be a contender without the ability to make additional TC’s.
The game is not balanced for civs to be stuck in Feudal or Castle age. Castle age is manageable because there are at least petards and rams to take out Castle’s there is no counter to mass towers. The Longest Blue Coffee Diplomacy Game (Feudal Only) - YouTube
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Assuming that you can competently maintain an eco without bonusses, some thoughts:
Ethiopians
Japanese
Saracens
Sicilians
Vietnamese
Honorable mentions abound.
As for bottom 5s, the game is balanced in such a way to where civs can fight competently by in large for Feudal Age combat. Eagles do underperform compared to Scouts so there is that.
I will note that one of the honorable mentions, the Turks, would excel in long term feudal warfare. Their Scout bonus could flip too many a game.
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A 55f 60g unit that only counters an 80f unit and dies to everything else? Not impressive.
Cumans S tier, Burgundians A tier, Romans and Sicilians maybe also A tier.
Cumans absolutely kills all.
Forgot about Saracens siege archers. Could actually be S tier too
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Oh yeah, I forgot that camels are not really cost effective in Feudal. I’m not even sure why the devs decided to give that option to the Gurjaras, as it’s clearly not going to come in handy aside from massing camels early. But obviously, in a Feudal-only game, massing units for Castle Age is not an option.
I think BL scouts rule in all in feudal, so I value having BL very high.
- My top 5: Cumans, Sicilians, Turcs, Magyars, Khmer
- My bottom 5: Malays, Britons, Aztecs, Incas, Mayans
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Except archers and pikes. Considering that there are only 4 main units (archers, skirms, pikes, scouts), that’s just one unit they really “rule” against. I’m excluding militia line here because let’s be honest, nobody (except maybe Japanese) will use them after early feudal.
In an all feudal game, you’d want to go BL scouts, and archers almost every single game. No other unit combo works just as well, except eagles-archers. M@a might be worth it for a special few civs, and when you want to raze buildings. In those cases, m@a-archer is viable. But those are basically the only two combos.
The point is, don’t get stuck on scouts, having (only) the best scouts does not do the job for you. You also need archers.
I would like to see the answer to the same question with Castle Age.
Malians (fully upgraded everything in Castle Age, and the eco bonuses). Britons maybe (outranges any counters). Burgundians (access to Cavalier, and the Imp eco upgrades if you wanted them). Bohemians (early HC + early Chem and lots of damage on pikemen). Something else.
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To my understanding, they do more than fine against archers and spears.
BL scouts die in 4 spear hits (3s/hit) and kill in 6 hits (2s/hit).
Archers may be more problematic due to the big number as you inky need 5 or 6 farms and can build 4 ranges, but in the long run I think BL scouts will overrun them. 60 BL scouts confortably should beat 100 archers, and scouts can more or less decide of the fight because archers are not that good against building. So you can also raid the archer player if he attacks you, forcing him to come back or get more damage than you. And you can build towers early, since you dont save stone for TCs anyways.
Yeah, sure you can add archers (and probably should), but scouts should make the biggest difference due its predominance and the discrepancy between “good scouts” and “bad scouts”. In Feudal everyone has more or less the same archers.
So I dont know, maybe I am wrong, but I put a lot of value to having Bloodlines scouts.
Just tested it. Without micro, the scouts win. With micro, the archers can and do win. Now, it’s pretty darn difficult with those numbers because you can’t group more than 60 units in one control group. In a realistic situation, where you have spaces to cram in archers, I’d say they will win decisively.
The problem is that scouts are easily handled by a few spears and walls. You need just 1 spear against 3 scouts, as per Hera’s estimate. Also, spears are easier to produce because they cost less food, and cost wood. Sure, you can tower one area and keep archers out from that area. However, archers have range. They can camp your stone, and you’ll have a hard time affording new towers. Also, you need stone and wood for making towers to push away archers, or a lot of skirms. On the other hand, you just need some palisade walls for keeping scouts out.
I mean, just look at the open map meta now. With scouts, you need like 18 pop up, and get there before your opponent walls. With archers, you can take more time. The latest KotD is just an archer fest.
I’d agree, except in case of civs which have bonuses. Like mayans, britons, ethiopians, and Vietnamese which do have bonuses for archers.