Thats such a weird interaction, they are already quite vulnerable because of lower range compared to regular trebs.
4 Likes
That’s a good callout. I think most people would simply assume otherwise, and therefore not tried monks against them. They don’t need that counter, I don’t think.
3 Likes
But BBCs can be converted.
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Yeah, but 3K civs cannot make normal trebuchets and don’t have bombard cannons. If they can even lose one unit they can destroy the buildings from far points to monks, then, they cannot do anything. Seriously, what were the devs cooking with this DLC? I have no problem with experiments whatsoever time to time and even though I’d have preferred more Song period civilizations, I can still live with 3K civs unlike many here, but these civilizations have too many new mechanics and peculiar units that’re so different. Seems like a balance nightmare to me.
1 Like
But their siege ships are nowhere near as vulnerable as cannon galleons are? Maybe they should be worse at something to offset the value of Lou Chuans.
On this I can absolutely agree. Too many mechanics all at once, not even counting the free patch
Monks already cannot convert properly an elephant. Monks is the most difficult unit to micro. You guys want to make monks totally useless.
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New mechanics: Hero units, Coiled Serpent array (hp gain, arguably similar to Monaspa attack gain), White feather guard slow mechanic, Jian swordsmen automatic form switch, DoT (fire damage and bleed effect), Thunderclap bombs (extra projectiles spawning from projectiles, and explosive deaths), Jurchen eco bonus removing decay, reduced friendly fire damage, pastures, mounted trebs burning fire
New mechanics shared with older civs: promotions (jaguar warriors), two-weapon units (Lou chuans and fire archers, Chinese have Lou Chuans)
Tuntian is similar to some things already in the game (relics gold trickle, guard states, trade workshops, etc) - arguably a new mechanic, but not really.
Iron Pagoda melee shield is comparable to shrivamsha riders dodge mechanic, but blocking a different type of attack (so I barely consider it a new mechanic)
I’m not counting traction trebs as a new mechanic as they don’t actually have any unique mechanics - they’re more a new regional unit similar to BBCs. Free villagers from eco techs is also similar to Bengali bonus (which is free villagers from age up - really just a different “technology” triggering the effect)
For comparison, new mechanics from Poles: Obuch armor removal, Winged Hussar upgrade (shared with Lithuanians, replacing a generic upgrade was new), Folwark (instant food effect), gold from stone mining bonus; Szlachta Privileges was comparable to supplies, so not a new mechanic.
What I’m counting as a new mechanic seems a little bit arbitrary to me. The bonuses themselves may be new, but a bonus being new doesn’t mean it required any new mechanics. All of the new mechanics combined are a lot, but it doesn’t seem too far out of line with previous DLC civs to me on a per-civ basis. Just more total because there are more civs.
Allowing monks able to convert traction trebs at a distance wouldn’t do much for their usability. They’ll still remain one of the most powerful units in the game (but still micro-intensive). And converting battle elephants is still very much possible (I did so in a recent game a few times)
Dev totally calculated this behavior of converting traction trebs from range, that’s why the civ that got them also got heroes that immune to conversion
Converting one is very easy. But monks are not a hard counter to elephants as it was before (this is another topic).
And the War Chariot, so easly forgotten. Plus the free patch.