Training time of units in AOE3: Guide and civ. comparisons

Hello fellow explorers.

I have been working on gathering all possible data on Training Times in AOE3 and though I would share my findings.

Please note:

  • I labelled the columns with generic unit types, though bear in mind sometime, the Training rates might only be good for the main civs. units (so not Mercenaries, Native units, Consulate, etc.)
  • The last part of the table is mostly for Treaty plays, as in include the numbers with Incan Chasquis Messengers technology (-15% Training time to cavalry and infantry).
  • The color coding is to help quickly visualise and I used the normal training times of the Europeans civs. without Engineering school as the Normal value (see first row). So it is not based on a true mathematical average.
  • The value displayed in the table is the Time in % needed to train the units in comparison to the base training time. Therefore, a value of 60% would tell you that the unit needs only 60% of his base training time (= 40% reduction in training time).
  • The table assumes you will play all cards and research all techs relating to training time reduction. See civs. notes after each table for exceptions.

- If you do spot an error, please let me know, I’ll update the numbers!

Color Legend:
image

Table ONE: Europeans, Asians and Africans civilisations training times

Note 1: Swedes and Chinese
Both have access to a Team Engineering School. The -15% reduction to Artillery could be applied to all other allied civs. in theory. It is taken in consideration with Chinese, but not with Swedes, as Swedes normally prefer to play the normal version of Engineering School they also have.

Note 2 Russians
To have instant Strelets, they need the card Dueling School, otherwise, only Musketeers and Halberdiers will achieve instant speed.

Note 3: Japanese
Japanese is the only civ. that can lose one of their bonus permanently (if the Shogunate is destroyed). They also can create units in groups of 10, so this is considered for the color coding, but not the numbers themselves.

Note 4: Indians and Chinese
Some exceptions here. The Siege Elephant is not considered a cavalry unit for training time reduction.
The Flamethrower is considered an infantry unit for the purpose of Incan Chasquis Messengers.

Note 5: Powerful cavalry units
Some of the most powerful cavalry units have a safeguard that make them always require a minimum of 5% of their original training time (so as to not be made at instant speed on Andes). This is the case of Lancers, Cuirassiers and Oprichniks as well as possibly some mercenaries (I do not know of an complete list if anyone can help…).

Note 6: USA
They have a card to reduce cavalry training time by 10%, but the State (Imperial age up) to get it is normally not used. Also the Flag will give a small training speed increase, but it is barely relevant late game (see notes after next table for details on working rate increases).

Table TWO: American Native civilisations

Reading the table
The first row give you data on training time without the help of the Community plaza (Fertility Ceremony active).
The second row take into consideration a Community plaza with no or a minimum investment on the player part.
The last row show the best value possible to achieve. (Note that I have excluded Incan Priestesses from this, as they cost population and are hard to come by. You can assume some better numbers from them, but note that, as we will discuss below, that would not make a massive difference).

The community plaza explained
One of the main thing to know about Fertility Ceremony is that the increase in working speed for unit creation takes into account the remaining training time value of units and NOT the original training time of the units, meaning that you will get diminishing value the more cards and techs that reduce training time you have. This translate in the fact that units that have a very slow training time benefit a lot by it, while this does not have that huge of an impact on faster units.

Notes

  • It is impossible to achieve instant speed with the plaza.
  • Artillery might be trained fast, but sadly it only applies to Captured Mortars, so it is unlikely to be too valuable (exception for Haude.).
  • Overall the value from the plaza is low, as it compares to church upgrades, but require a constant investment from the player and can be shut down.

General Conclusion
Training times are only a part of what make civilisations competitive. However, most of the lese competitive civilisations for Treaty have terrible training rates: Indians and Ottomans are a prime exemple. On the other hand, Chinese low base training times do not seem to be too problematic with smaller reductions, while Russians instant infantry aren’t a winning ticket most of the time.

23/10/2021: Some edits to tables (Abus Gun, Russian Mortars and USA with Indiana)

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afaik russia has nothing for their artillery unless you count grenadiers.

in de they have engineering school :wink:

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ah right i forgot about that, clearly i am a Russian player.

i cant remember, was that from a patch?

os indianos são injogaveis em tratado por causa de 2 coisas eles não tem um canhão decente e treinam infantaria muito lento, índia em tratado e a uma das civilizações mais fraca do jogo.

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You should try Black Arrow HC card, mortats are native warriors for this civs

When I start a game as United States in post-Imperial or post-Industrial, my outlaws train instantly. This is without sending any cards or researching any extra technologies. I can’t seem to work out what techs make this possible though, or find any way to replicate this in normal games (starting in any other age). It also doesn’t work with any other civ. Am I missing something?

I did not manage to find any reason for this. From the tech I got:
-25% from the Church tech
-50% Saloon tech
-10% Immigrants

Total -85%, so we’d be missing a 15% (technically possible to be achieve with the nats on Andes or Akan).

I’d report this in the bug section.

I think Indiana has a card that gives an extra -10%
edit: it seems like with the card you can instant train Comancheros but not the infantry outlaws.

Good catch with Indiana. Its actually 10% faster, so in the best case its around 3% reduction in Late Game, so not game changing, though it has a better effect before most techs are researched.

I’ve updated the table to show the numbers with it.

The upgrade at the saloon plus the church training time upgrade plus the flag (indiana and Florida might get you there without the flag, I can’t remember.)

The big thing is that upgrade at the saloon that increases hp/Atk and reduces training time by a lot.

Ah, no wonder re-massing with India is extremely tedious.

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It’s impossible to get to 0% Training time with things that increase the speed of creation like the Flag or Indianan bonus.

Florida gives a -10% Training Time to cavalry. Even with that, there is still 5% to cavalry outlaws and he specified that no cards were sent, so it can’t be linked to that.

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I played around with it and yes, you definitely can get there in Age 4 with Indiana or Age 5 with Florida. Also, I’m convinced on the post-industrial issue. I wasn’t able to find any way to get there without cards.

Wild west: -50%
Mass Cavalry: -35%

Two of these three:
Indiana: -10%
New Mexico Immigration: -10%
Seminole Ponies (Florida): -10%

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índia no tratado e injogavel

I have corrected Indiana numbers: it’s indeed -10% training time (10% faster speed only applies to technologies research time).

So as far as USA outlaw cavalry is concerned, yes, it’s possible to have them at instant speed outside of Andes Upper, though not without cards.

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For some reason, post-Industrial doesn’t research Mexican Immigration (maybe that’s a bug too?), so I wasn’t including that. Anyway, I tested the actual US infantry and cavalry (again, no cards sent, post-Industrial), and all of them took the expected time to train, except State Militia, which took 20 seconds (should be 22.75 with just Standing Army). It seems the bug only affects outlaws, and something different is speeding up State Militia.

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