In your analysis your overlook one thing: It takes several more minutes before you have any military units on the field. As I mentioned Janissaries are so good because unlike e.g. Mangudais or Genoese Crossbowmen they are instantly powerful in early Castle Age.
That’s why Janissaries, Organ Guns, Conquistadors and Hussite Wagons have been nerfed over the years, while most UUs have been buffed.
And your counter overlooks the natural production advantage of archery ranges over castles combined with the turk bonus for gunpowder production.
Making a fresh mass of HC straight out of age 4 still gets more done than going for elite jans after after an entire age 3 spent making them and + castles.
I dont play this civ often, but I have played it on arabia.
The nerf to 7 range was fair - the nerf to 50% accuracy was too much. It would have been better to just nerf the base damage to 15, tho that would be uneeded too.
Unlike many other unique units, jans only offer the utility of a slightly stronger xbow or a slow CA - before balistcis, since the become weaker than each after.
Mangudai and GC each flip a counter interaction, Conqs get their power from speed and range, hussite wagons and organ guns got nerfed for being a high dps ranged unit that took no bonus damage from skrims. This case, is NOT like that.
Done, enjoy and try to argue in good faith.
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Point taken on the video. Scratch those perks then.
As an alternative → villagers + 5hp and +1 attack per age
and
Cavalier available in age 3.
Any thoughts on the rest of the civ?
Yay it’s all merged now
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I think this could also be a bit annoying in tower rushes makes villagers annoyingly strong, think Incas pre-nerf bonus.
Sounds familiar…
I think the goal is to buff/change the Turks with the least amount of changes possible. With the direction you have gone with these bonuses could be mistaken for a completely new civilisation instead making small changes to a civilisation players have already gotten used to. Even during the Persian ‘rework’ it was mainly adding small bonuses, making the UT part of the war elephant automatically and giving them the Savar, nothing important was removed.
A bunch of threads got merged.
This is an external concept of a rebuild of the turk civ along a more recent desing pattern - more like how the Indian civ was split and remade.
If it reals like a whole new civ - it is.
If you’re saying this because you’re confused, I personally asked for it lmao
@II.Selim was spamming the whole forum with threads about Turks, and then someone else made a thread also about them and that’s when I had enough.
Indian’s death is greatly overexaggerated, mainly the change replaced their unique unit with Ghulam, and gave them 2 regional units. This change on the other hand reworks the entire civilization by even more than that! Plus Turks don’t need a ‘split’.
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Not suggesting a split either.
The allusion to the indians was to make a connnwction with how those 4 civs were desinged - more sophisticated, bonuses, synergies, compositions were introduced there.
I personally just think of it as a highwater mark in civ design.
More, I increasingly feel that AoK civs seem a bit … flat as time goes by. The level of abraction between old and new civs is alot different - i think a remake of all civs would be good to have at some point.
Weren’t there only 2 threads on turks by him? Were there mamy others?
It has been merged by moderation.
He was spamming everywhere he could
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Armenians do not get a weaker Long Swordsman in the Castle Age. If they had gotten a weaker Long Swordsman, it would no longer be a bonus; it would just be a gimmick or feature instead. The same as Cuman Feudal Age Rams, Burgundian Castle Age Cavalier, or Bohemian Castle Age Hand Cannoneer, etc.
That’s why we don’t count the ability of training Camel Scouts or Eagle Scouts in the Feudal Age as a bonus, because they are already much weaker than their Castle Age counterparts.
The Castle Age Janissaries were indeed a bonus until the range nerf and Hand Cannoneer buff. Despite requiring a castle, being more expensive, lacking an attack bonus, and being less accurate than Hand Cannoneers, they had +1 range and a +9 HP advantage over Hand Cannoneers. This meant that a Castle Age Janissary was better against everything except infantry.
Because they are supposed to be a generalist Hand Cannoneer, sacrificing the attack bonus and cheaper price at the expense of being better against everything.
While I think the newer civs are getting too gimmicky (especially the 3K non-civs), I think the older civs have the opposite problem in that they’re way too simple, even if it was acceptable for the time, and with weird tech tree exclusions. I’ve always been vocal against Indians lacking the knight line, but Aztecs lacking all building health upgrades is equally weird if not weirder.
And Goths are a much more extreme case of “ahistorical because the devs wanted something different” than Armenians. The old devs wanted a civ focused on infantry to the detriment of everything else, even the civ name seems more like a whim than a sensible choice.
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Im fine with that. Aztecs were always an aggressive civ.
Woah strange. The Aztecs had amazing architecture (despite no iron or wheels) and aren’t exactly a powerhouse in post-imp.
I don’t mind having some generic civs, as long as they feel interesting to play. There is no other civ that plays quite like turks (free chemistry, more gold, good fast imp), or goths (infantry, infantry, and a side of infantry). None of the AoK civs feel like they are having an identity crisis, no longer having a reason to exist due to new civs.
As I’ve said in multiple threads, I think Goths cover way too much (which is a problem African hcivs also have). You could say they’re Goths in name only, given the old devs named their UU after a latter Danish term and have used them to represent Anglo-Saxons, Austrians and even Russians and Poles.
Sure, you can keep their current basic design, even if it’s still weird, but they should at least stop representing unrelated and distantly-related civs.
Rus and poles got their own civis so austrians and saxons are next?
Huh? I must’ve missed that dlc