Between a range less than archers & skirms, and less speed than scout cav, it wouldn’t be too bad
Turks are weak because the lack both skirm and Speer. This is what needs to be tackled, give em pikes
Turks lategame needs to nerf if Turks early game improves. Once Turks get to imperial age, it will be Turks age basically.
My idea: Give turk savar or some equivalent unit
Doesn’t affect the early game at all, and it’s a core feature of the civ : strong so long that you have gold, but Tengri have mercy the minute you run out of it.
They also rely a lot on power spikes upon age up.
This Design prevents balance. Lacking both skirm and pike will have to go or we accept turks stay unbalanced.
Just give them pikes
Not a fan of giving Turks Pike or Elite Skirmisher at the expense of another nerfs. However, standard Spearmen/Skirmisher could be improved to make them a bit more serviceable in the Castle Age. Something like:
- Increasing Spearmen’s bonus damage against camels from 12 to 14, and increasing bonus damage to elephants from 15 to 20.
- Giving Skirmishers +1 bonus damage against cavalry archers.
This thread feels less like a punishment for rhe spammer and more like a reward to them and a punishment for everyone else
1 Like
Okay so here the ideas I’ve heard and how i think they might work:
- Unique upgrade for Trebuchet gains +75 Hit Points and +1 Range (I don’t know what you wanted for specific stat changes). Upgraded upon researching artillery.
- Janissary’s replace Hand Cannoneers in the archery range (or perhaps as a unique upgrade to them). New Unique unit.
Unique unit replaced with ‘Sipahi’ a cavalry archer with slower speed and less damage but much more armour. Below are some random stats i made up. I used stats on the AOE fandom but I’m not sure how accurate & updated they are.
(ELITE) SIPAHI vs (HEAVY) CAVALRY ARCHER
- Cost: 70W 45G | 40W, 60G
- Training Time: 25s | 37s, 30s
- Hit Points: 55, 65 | 50, 60
- Attack: 5, 6 | 6, 7
- Reload: 2 | 2
- Delay: 0.5 | 0.9, 0.88
- Range: 4 | 4
- Accuracy: 95% | 50%, 80%
- Melee Armour: 3, 4 | 0.1
- Pierce Armour: 3, 5 | 0
- Speed: 1.35 | 1.4
- Elite/Heavy Upgrade: 800W 800G | 900F 500G
Same attack bonus as cavalry archer and same amour classes (+ UU armour class). The unit would be strong vs infantry and archers but weak vs most other things.
Replace Sipahi Tech or at least its name..
- Remove/Nerf Sipahi and extend the +1 Pierce Armour bonus to other units
Could work in many different ways. +1 PA to all units, +1 PA to all millitary units, +1 PA to all cavalry and archery range units, etc.
If Sipahi is to be replaced, replace with something to help them with gold during trash wars.
- Give feudal version of cavalry archer (archer scout?) that automatically upgrades to cavalry archers in castle age. Stats would be the same as cavalry archer except:
- -1 Range
- -1 Damage
- -10 HP
- Creation Speed: 37 → 55 seconds
Really strong to start massing cav archers in before castle age, although this bonus could be saved for another civ.
still cool…
- Revert Janissary Range changes and buff their accuracy (@II.Selim)
-
Increase spearman bonus damage vs camels and elephants, Give skirmisher +1 vs cavalry archer
-
Replace Gunpowder techs 50% cheaper with literally anything else that could be useful for the civ on Arabia
- Bite the bullet and give them pikes
I’m not saying to do all these things (that’s dumb) or even that I agree with ay of them. Just considering the ideas people have come up with.
2 Likes
Replacing the unique unit is a big Nono, and I believe the Feudal cavalry archer may be too much (would be a cool addition to the civ though). I dont really want a huge Janissary buff and especially not to the castle age unit’s range. Giving them pikes would be boring and I’m not sure what the purpose of the Great Bombard is. A spearman/skirmisher buff could be very nice for them but i also really like extending their 1 pierce armour from scout line to other units.
The only viable solution imo, is to make Sipahi a civ bonus and add in its place a new unique tech at Castle age, that will enable the creation of janissaries from archery ranges, like Marauders, Anarchy etc.
1 Like
Oh that’s probably what the other guy meant 11
1 Like
Previously, Janissaries had a +1 range and a +9 HP advantage over hand cannoneers, at the expense of 15% accuracy and lacking an attack bonus against infantry.
But now, the range advantage is gone, the HP advantage has been reduced to irrelevance, and the accuracy penalty has increased to 25%! Additionally, all the infantry buffs have made hand cannoneers even better than Janissaries.
So, Janissaries have received a total of four nerfs, both directly and indirectly! And I am still very modest in wanting the Janissary’s 8 range back with 55% accuracy (and the elite ones with 56 HP and 70% accuracy).
Because it was OP in castle age, there was no counter to it. Not even mangonels stood a chance.
You’re comparing the janissary with the turkish hand cannon, which is unlocked immediately instead of needing chemistry for every other civ while the janissary won’t get its full power until researching the elite upgrade.
That’s why I asked for a merger instead of yet another thread. The others weren’t even locked.
1 Like
Could you please close the other identical threads?
3 Likes
Yep, send me vía prívate MD, all the links so i can merge them here.
Welp. Since we have this one thread, may as well expand the focus:
Turks
Cavalry and Gunpowder civilization
-
Civilization bonuses:
- Villagers use their ranged attack by default
- Natural food sources have 50% more food (sheep, hunts, berries)
- Scout line upgrades free
- Cavalry units cost 25% less gold
- Ballistics, husbandry free.
-
Team Bonus - Mounted units deal +3 damage to other mounted units.
The current turks hyperfocus on the end of the period where the civ transition into the ottoman empire. Valid, but it takes it a bridge too far when 3/4 of the civ is ignored. This concept aims to reflect the other 800 years of the turks in the time period - Oghuz and Seljuks mainly.
To make this, yet 'nother CA civ stand out, the focus would be on the OG horse archer tactics - in game, they have a natural compatibility with hussars, but irl the complement was cataphracts.
The cavalry gold cost reduction aims to make it a bit more feasible to have knights and CA at the same time. Otherwise the more practical, CA/huss is always there.
The easy access to ballistics and husbandry are to further reinforce the highly mobile, missile based approach. In the endgame, Janissary and Artillery is really all they need to cover the link to ottomans.
- Unique units
- Janissary
- Silhadhar
Janissary:
Unique upgrade to the hand cannoneer.
HP - 60
Attack - 22 (+5 vs infantry)
Accuracy - 75%
Reload - 3.45
Frame delay - 0.2
Range - 8
M. armor - 4
P. armor - 0
Speed - 0.96
Upgrade - 1000 food, 650 gold
The period does fit when the janissaries started using guns over bows but having it in age 3 doesn’t make sense, chronologically. The improvements to durability are reflect the operating tactics of janissaries - shoot their ammo bag, then go in for melee. Tercios weren’t adapted by ottomans for a while (if ever).
Silhadhar
Heavy cavalry, strong vs most units, especially cavalry. Weak vs spears and monks.
HP - 130, 140
Attack - 13, 16
Reload - 1.8, 1.7
M. armor - 2, 2
P. armor - 3
Speed - 1.45
Bonus: +3 vs cavalry, +5 vs cavalry
Cost: 70 food, 55 gold
Elite upgrade - 1200 food, 800 gold
For castle age, a heavy horsemen unique unit to highlight the Seljuks. I know that it was a cavalry type present in the seljuks and lasted well into ottomans. For a castle - imperial time span, it fit right in. The stat spread is to mimic a paladin thats stronger in melee but weaker at range with an overall advantage of being faster. The anti cavalry is a nod to the regional development of a sword type dedicated to horseback duels developing in the area.
Unique technologies:
- Sipahi - + 20 hp for mounted archers
- Sahi cannons- +2 range for Bombards, Bombard Towers, Cannon Galleon line.
These are already perfect, imo. A nice and relevant boost to CA in age 3, and the very nice boost to siege related gunpowder is alot more in line with the real gunpowder specialty of the later Ottomans.
Missing: Halberdier, Gambesons, Arbalester, Elite skirmisher, Paladin, Camel line, Steppe Lancer line, Siege onager, Siege ram, Fast Fire ship, Herbal Medicine, Block Printing, Seige engineers, Stone shaft mining,
Gains: Pikeman, Onager, Illumination, Crop rotation
1 Like
What about this:
Scout Cavalry line gain +1 pierce armor → All military units +1 Pierce Armour (including siege and warships (doesnt really affect them due to bonus damage))
Gunpowder technologies are 50% cheaper (weak bonus, give it to a civ which doesnt have free chemistry)
Sipahi +20 HP → 15 HP (350F 150G → 300F 150G)
A wild idea, what if Sipahi change camel-line gold cost in additional food cost.
Sipahi effect change into civ bonus: CA +10 hp in Castle Age and +10hp in Imperial.
Heavy Camel Rider upgrade lost.