Unique Unit Idea - Huǒ Qiāng (Fire Lance) (Jin Dynasty?)

Sure. But if you build them too early, you sacrifice your early game for your lategame you may never reach. Makes for a funky balance.

Sure. But I don’t think we’re anywhere near that point in aoe2 just yet.

The Feitoria is just fine, it’s nicely balanced as-is. They stopped tweaking it ages ago.

There’s no fundamental reason resource-producing buildings are a problem, any more than Relics. Just a matter of proper balance.

Fine? It’s terrible on land and broken on water. And it’s literally getting tweaked in the next patch.

Feitorias were the first step, Burgundian and sicilians UT and gimmicks for UU were the second step, your houses are third. One step after anotjher

I say stop it now. No houses gimmicks. No second aoe game ruined. I love aoe3 vanilla,much more than I ever cared for aoe 2, but the game is ruined for me. Not again.

The plural of bonus in Latin is bonī. Cheers.

https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/bonus

I doubt this is possible to do melee always hits the target in front of your unit.

Sorry, but that’s just not right, and this is an excellent example of why open-source sites like Wiktionary are not a good reference.

Firstly, bonus in latin does not translate to bonus in english, but rather to the much more broad concept of ‘good’. So the plural of bonus in latin does not translate to bonuses in english, but rather ‘multiple good’. Bonī, in the case you are referencing, is the masculine nominative, which would more accurately describe something along the lines of ‘a good man’.

Doesn’t melee still technically have an accuracy and a range value? All you’d need to do is add a fire effect. I’m pretty sure you could even mod it in fairly easily using existing values.

Horribly impractical weapon to use in a horse in real life, and horribly hard to balance in-game

I wonder who won that war

The Fire Lances, actually. 450 Fire Lances defeated at least 3500 Mongols.

From what I can tell, it seemed like a frightfully powerful weapon for its time.

It just means “fire lance” in Han Chinese language rather than Jurchen language.
These weapons are invented and used by Han Chinese first.
Jurchen armies had used them well but I don’t think they are suitable to be Jurchen UU.
Similar to give the Greek Fire to Arabians or Saracens instead of Byzentine.

Heilongjian is a place name. It just implies people found the oldest gunpowder weapon in existence there, which does not prove that Jurchen people had better gunpowder weapons than other people, especially the Song Dynasty of Han Chinese people.

According to Chinese historical records, Jurchen cavalry troop is impressive indeed, even worthy to be the only paladin civ in the Far East.
I suggested the chain whip cavalry or the flail cavalry before but any else is fine if it may show the unique strong bond with Jurchen culture.

“Tiefutu” and “miŋgan moumukə” could well be the sources of inspiration for UTs.

The Latin bonus and the English bonus are the same words. That’s the derivation/etymology of the English word. It’s been used with a different meaning in English. I have registered your disagreement with the plural of the word bonus. I will continue to use the plural I prefer though.

So please stay on topic: a potential Jurchen civ. Thank you.

I don’t mind a different name for the UU.

Jurchen people used gunpowder extensively in order to create the Jin Dynasty. So my civ proposal tries to reflect that.

And you can give them regular hand cannoneers.

The most outstanding part of the Jurchen warfare is their cavalry troop. As far as the records I read in Chinese, gunpowder weapons were not the point of the Jurchen military equipment in the wars between Jurchens and Hans, no mention the wars between Jurchens and Khitans. Even the battles between the Song and the Jin spurred the invention and use of gunpowder weapons, they were happened in the Song army mainly. The advancement of gunpowder weapons of Han people then was lately succeeded by the Ming Dynasty.

So how would you design a potential Jurchen civ?

Fair enough, I mostly just was basing it off the wikipedia article.

Unfortunately, we already have more than enough standard cavalry units. This unit, by contrast, would definitely be new and interesting, which is exactly what is needed from a Unique Unit!

Actually, no, they’re not. The infinitive in Latin is ‘Bonum’, not ‘bonus’. This is a common mistake, due to the historical trend of listing latin words by their first person present form. The plural of bonum is not boni, but bona. So even if you were voluntarily incorrectly conjugating the english word in the latin manner, boni would still not be correct.

Please, do some research on sources that AREN’T crowdsourced, and you’ll quickly see that literally nobody anywhere agrees with your version. I suppose, ultimately, you’re free to speak incorrectly if you so choose, but know you’ll only cause confusion in the long term.

I’ve opened an Oxford dictionary. The etymology of the word bonus in English is from the Latin word bonus. That’s not up for debate. I’ve also opened Wheelock’s Latin grammar 6th edition Chapter 4. The plural of bonus is boni as it is a masculine adjective. Also not up for debate.

Your opinion has been registered. It is unimportant for me at the moment. I will not reply anymore on this as it is off topic. Thanks.

Debating over what words mean is equally silly as saying teutons represent teutonic order ingame.

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I like the unit idea, I dont like the civ idea.

I hope the game would introduce more interesting units like crusader knight they did with dawn of the dukes.

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UU could be the flail cavalry or the chain whip cavalry.
They are the melee cavalry with about 2 range, able to attack all the enemy units who on the path of attacking, similar to the scorpions.

Castle UT could be “Tiefutu”, the knight line +1 melee armor or +1 pierce armor.
Imperial UT could be “miŋgan moumukə”, cheaper CA line gold cost or other eco bonus.

The Jurchen civ may be quite aggressive, having the full-upgraded paladin and heavy CA.
According their pirate activity in the Korea and Japan, they should have a good navy troop.
For their civ bonus, I would like to give them free cavalry armor upgrade and let the fishing boats have the attack ability.

For keeping a cavalry civ balance and reflecting their use of gunpowder weapons, they would have the hand cannoneers, but frankly the gunpowder weapons were never the main point of Jurchen army in the most of battles, as far as I learned at the school.

I agree that East Asia firearms are attractive.
But as I stated, Jurchen people were not specially famous by the firearms in the historical records, no mention the fire lances are the weapons of the Han Chinese.
Maybe the fire lance could be a region unit, this will be another matter.