I agree. But I also think Berserks and Huskarls move speed should be buffed to 1.1.
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Why? Huskarls and Berserks are strong enough
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Disagree. Iād be fine with Champs playing No Role for These civs, kinda Like cav archers for mongols.
I would rather them be Buffed differently than turning them into woad2.0 by increasing their speed. Iād propose an extra 1/1 Armor and +5food Cost for Samurai and an extra 1 Attack for woad/Elite and also +5food.
For Vikings i would reduce the Cost of berserkergang.
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this is true but also what makes these civs whether strong or not is at the moment not their unique units(their unique units just a little buffed versions of champs) but rather ecos bonuses(vikings,celts) so I never seen someone complaining like āānerf berserks too opāā or āāwoad raider way too goodāā.I still remember back when it was suggested that the mongols should get steppe lancers after their big nerf a lot people was like āāno are you kidding me mongols already OPāā , āā oh yeah make them even strongerāā but again back than my point was āāyes mongols strong but its due to their hunting bonus and I dont think a unit that was severly nerfed would make them even strongerāā and the mongols now have a bit buffed steppe lancer I never seen anyone has complained nor it effected their win rate or pick rate
Well nobody denies that
True
Actually vikings champions has more HP !
Their regen is very situational and not that noticable.Also requires an expensive tech to reach that point as well which in turn makes them harder to achieve.
Thats a very rare scenario also its very hard to go for berserks in castle age as well so I wouldnt really call that an advantage over champs I mainly talk about imperial age.
They are just a little faster than celtic champs, more expensive and still get countered by range just fine.
So for berserk you need if plan to mass them at least 2 -3 castles which is 1950 stone, berserkergang 850 f , 450 g which is hefty investment and for what +1 attk , +1 MA, -8 HP and 0,11 more speed but you also pay +%25 more gold and +%45 more food for that on top of the previous investments.Thats why I think their food cost should be reduced.Chieftains also effects their pikeman and champs too so I didnt include that.
That bonus effects all viking infantry including champs and their pikeman.Also it almost makes their pikeman just as strong halbs vs cavalry.
But also now far cheaper which less strain on economy so you can actually field more champs thanks to needing less farmers.
On a straight fight celtic champ barely loses to woad raider left with 2 hp only !
This is true but although woad raider nearly has same speed as eagles paying %50 more food and %25 more gold for a bit of raiding in the late game when your opposing players definitly had TCs,castles and tower etc after they have same PA as champs vs ranged they die just as easily in eaglesā case this is different because they have beefy PA despite their expensive cost so they do not die very easily.
I m not saying that you cant win games going woad raiders I m saying going at this moment with current standings going for champs far better choice. I mean ofc you can win game with them you can even win a game if you go the elephant archers as indians but that doesnt change the fact they are absolutely garbage atm.
Iāve honestly never seen Celt champs, Celt champs are barely faster than a no squire halb while woads are faster than a knight without husbandry. You really undervalue the speed aspect of woads and Berserks, speed changes performance against ranged and siege, get better engagements. Champs are much worse in that aspect, its their major weakness
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Samurai and Jaguars need a small buff. (-5 gold cost, maybe -5 food too)
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Jaguar first need an adjustment of TT to balance out the aztecs nerf on their production speed
Why not delete this technology for celts, aztecs, vikings and japanese? So they have there option. Make a few castels for theĀ“re UU or make a lot of barracks for this champion with there civ bonus or Techand bonus for his champions. The other civs like burmese, malians or teutons have theyĀ“re own special champions + supply
because Supplies is supposed to make the Militia line better. and the Militia line is an Infantry unit. and those are infantry civs?
because the champion may overlap a little bit then those units but generally speaking they donāt always fulfill the same role.
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At 4.07 woad raider loses to canon fodder champs due to champs being cheaper.At 23.09 berserk legit smacks normal spanish champs with equal resources but I dont know what ll happen versus beefy viking champs.
it loses to champs, but why would i use woads to fight champs? iād use archers for that, which champs would never touch.
your using an apples and oranges comparison. they donāt neccesarily fullfill the same role. woads literally are faster then knights who donāt have husbandry. champs are barely faster then archers.
woads would fair far better against archers then champs would.
same with berserks. furthermore both are better against pretty much anything that isnāt an eagle 1v1.
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Well with equal numbers woads and berserks are better in every situation definitly true nobody says otherwise but case here which I m also trying to point out with supplies tech champs are cheaper(%50 less food and %25 less gold) that you can easily field more of them before supplies that was only %9 less food and %25 less gold so before supplies both berserk, woad raider and samurai were better both with equal resources and equal numbers.Above tests also made with equal resources.While it is true 40 woad raider better versus archers its not the case with equal resources thats what I m trying to point out its goes not just versus other champs but also every other units as well so whether archer or champ doesnt matter.
In massive battles, the wood raider speed makes a lot of impact because when they kill a unit, they donāt spend too much time chasing the next enemy unit.
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Because there are currently not top infantries with the speed of 1.1 and 1.15. But 0.8, 0.9, 1.0, 1.05, 1.2, 1.25, 1.3 have all been included. 1.3+ is the speed of mounted units. +0.05 to Berserks and Huskarls will just a small buff if Supplies tech does not affect them.
???
Berserkers, Huskarls and Kamayuks are the best Infantry units.
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Again equal resources is not a realistic fight. If I see 30 slow a&s champs heading, I wouldnāt engage them with 20 woads/berserks. Again speed allowing me to pick fights on my terms
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Equal resources means you need less farmers for champs which means more population freed up for extra military.Well late game pushes rarely made without siege and say if someone has 30 champs and couple trebs(whom already move very slowly) yes you can retreat but in that case you ll lose ground.
the point is. no ones going to see champs and go ālet me make berserks or woads to counter thoseā.
they are going to make heavy cavalry or archers
Never say never in this game. You are vikings and your opponent has champs and skirms? You definitely want to tech into berserks, here. It is just such a great unit. Also as Celts you certainly wouldnāt make archers in imp and probably neither cavalry. Of course, you might be too slow in production when you start teching into them only after you see them but if both units are already on the field woads are super fine (assuming you have enough castles).
Why didnāt you pick teutonic Knights to compare? They are stronger than everything else and cost effective but because of lack on speed more unused than every other unit.
The point is like every cav to pikeman, you can run away from fight and more focus on strength. Itās part of successful strategy.
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