Unit composition against this?

Culverins are powered versions of springalds, they do all springalds do better.

Problem with them I feel, is when massed springalds are better, because they are faster, easier to mass, and less micro intensive.

A single culv can one shoot a spring, so if have three culvs and use them at the same time, you are wasting his potential.

How were your cannons easier to mass than culverins? So you prefer countering yourself?

Anyway, when you are at maximum supply and train units they train until 100% progress once you have free population space they come our immediatelty making training time less relevant assuming you got enough production buildings.

Also as Abbasids you have extra production speed so your culverin training time will be 28s and his springalds will have 22.5s training time. Not a big deal

Which you should avoid. It might feel like bad micro punishes culverins more than springalds but don’t forget that they have the same population cost so even with average micro 5 culverins will bully 5 springalds any day.

If your culverins aren’t at roughly the same distance of an enemy target then you can use shift rightclicking enemy siege then by the time your second culverin is in range the first enemy spring/mangonel is already destroyed. If the difference in distances are very small don’t that since the attack has a relatively long animation. Anyway be careful if the enemy pulls back his units this would make yours chase them and go out of position.

Lastly I don’t know how your game was like but you might want to consider using keeps in siege plays

rarely have issues as Abbasid against this composition, They counter RUS pretty hard nomatter what RUs throws at them.

If you have super strong econ (From the sound of it)

Handcannoneers+CamelRiders+Culverins+Mangonels and toss in a few bombards to break through castles and walls.

Almost nothing counters this.
Streltskies melts from mangonels, Culverins 1 shot kills springalds, Abbasid Handcannoneers are more Tonky than Streltskies, and melts their MAA.
Camels Rider counter anything Cavalry, and provides +2 armor to your Handcannoneers.
CTRL group your culverins and manually controll them to deal with their siege.
Put your armies in Line formation, this provides more DPS for your range units and easier surround for your melee units.
Also less vournarable to Mangonels.

If your Econ is strapped:
Maa+Crossbow+Camel Archers+4xMangonels+2xCulverins

MAA+Crossbow is a solid combination. Abbasid MAA is stronger than Rus MAA (Due to higher HP pool and +2 extra armor from camel).
Crossbows Melts anything knights.
Camel Archers, makes the enemie cav weak and easy to deal with with your MAA and prevents your crossbow from melting from Horsemen.

Given a window of oppertunity, break through with your Camel-Archers to the enemie backline and raid their econ. This forces them to pay more attention to their backline, making them slip up in the frontline fighting.

Also as Abbasid, you can run a pretty thin Econ-pop at Max-Imperial+age (if you have all wings and their upgrades).

55 Traders trading gold+wood + 35 Vills on food With all upgrades and golden age III, should suffice, leaving you at a 110 Pop cap for military units.
And you are free to spam as many handcannoneers and siege on your whim.

If you loose your culverin from badluck or suprise raid, thats not a problem. just use your infantry to make a few emergency springalds and focus the mangonels.

If you already established siege superiority which you should (rams don t cost much population but they are still costing military pop) snipe the rams with anti siege while kiting befire going full blown out battle . If you have cavalry you can hit and run(dodge mango shots) when killimg rams or just kill them with siege. 10 rams shouldn’t be a problem if you force fights away from your base/production. If you got caught off guard and they surprised you that is a totally different subject.

If somehow the opponent feels overwhelming while not outmicroing you it is possible that they have a larger military pop (can easily happen in 1v1 unless you are a top level player and much easier in tesm games, ffa etc) in this scenario depending on the situation you might want to delete villagers (on a side note since you are abbasid you have better eco even when you both have same eco population and if you accumulated rss while he had less vills/traders your stocks of rss are normally higher than his).

He has a large army that he cannot reproduce on desire so if your trades with a smaller army were very inefficient (i.e he hardly lost units) delete villagers then trade armies he will have a hard time remaking it if not immediately after a few trades. Then based on how things go you will know when you can remake villagers if needed (or make more traders instead if you have secured a long trading route)

Back to culverins, if you mess up your micro it is fine there is always a first time. Keep practicing. (Chinese are very common in Nomad megarandom if you like that mode and want to practice anti-siege micro)

When I said cannons I meant culverins (not bombards), sorry, I’m going to edit.

I will answer to the rest later, ty for the tips by the way.

Pretty sure everyone would assume bombards especially since the French bombards are called cannons.

Yes, it’s quite a topic…

Yes, those names confuse you…

I had forgot it was a teams game so probably his ally made stone walls for him right?

Nope, he hadn’t stone walls (at least in the front). I got down a castle, several towers, and a TC, but he was pushing me because my base was more exposed than him, so if I tried to enter his base he would just leave my troops and go to my base, so I got stucked in this pass forever until I started to lose the fights, then entered my base.

By the way he didn’t win also, because someone of the other players did a wonder and this dude won’t stop attacking despite the wonder team was just chilling.

But I felt like his composition was way better than mine. I can try share the rep of the game if you are curious.

@Kameho3743 I don’t usually use camels to support my infantry to be honest, I usually don’t face problems using just spears+HC and some siege. Abbasid spears are so good since they have a lot of HP and more attack range.

Abbasid spears are indeed good, But they don’t have a good sustain in the field. You want tanky units that can soak the damage away from your handcannoneers/ranged units.
also the +2 armor for all your infantry and -25% damage to all enemie cavalry is quite significant.

In a 1v1 battle, this might not seem to much, but in a battle of scales and when you have multiple units, the much greater the impact.

A fully upgraded knight does 32 damage.

With full armor upgrades + Camel support bonus armor and the debuff that it provides, a knight only does 19 damage. Thats a whopping 41% damage reduction on your units!

Which means your units die slower, dishes out more damage, and makes you fight far more cost-efficient than the opponent.

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How many camel archers would you mix into an infantry army?

i like running with anything between 15-20 camel archers, simply for the reason they make for excellent econ raiders if you can breach them through.
Their like mangudais but better in every way.

Also makes for good defensive units when microed well, as they are as fast as horsemen and can chase after raiders pretty well and clean them up.

It is up to you. In both cases I would immediately check army sizes (in population) because if it is 80 vs 120 then the composition or the number of camels or whatever becomes hardly relevant to why you had a hard time.

Speaking of army sizes, I recently lost a ranked game against a player that was using Mongols. Replaying the recording I found out that he rushed villagers until he had 140.

Interestingly, in order to match my army of 100, he did not hesitate to kill 40 of his villagers in order to build an army that could counter me. That seems like a tough call, but in the long run he ended up beating me, so I guess that’s the right thing to do.

Consider doing the same in critical situations, especially when you hit the 200 cap and realize late that you didn’t build any battering rams, stone throwers, or cannons to lower your Keep.

yes I learned this quite early actually especially since I mostly play team games where you feel you have to balance/rebalance the eco/army ratio. In 1v1 especially at high level it is very unlikely that the player who is ahead in economy has a much smaller army because the player who is ahead economically forces trades so his opponents would never get maxed pop with a smaller number of villagers/eco units.

In team games things get trickier, maps are larger, stone walls go up early etc. In 1v1 it is always a correct decision to attack/pressure if maxed out first. In teams, you teammates might be lagging behind so going 1v3 is probably a bad decision, then you have maps like mountain pass and company…

In particular in 2v2v2v2 or FFA, it is easy for someone who didn’t boom to get a large army if he does not get attacked then might even have resources in the bank despite the relatively low number of villagers.

I personally tend to stall a bit before deleting villagers to accumulate some resources. Sometimes I don’t even delete them and instead feed teammates if they have large military pop and I am playing a busted eco civ like Abbasids (even with the 30% tax rate feeding allies can be a thing when trading like crazy).

Deleting your own villagers is precisely the disgusting strategy that I abhor :face_vomiting: and it is highly supported by the game’s defenses, which allows you to accumulate so many resources

kamikaze strategies :face_vomiting:

That’s why I never make extra villagers… I do it in a staggered way…

:face_vomiting:


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