[Unit Theory] Imagine Unit: Republican Legionary

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Hey everyone !

Let’s start another topic above how we would imagine gameplay balancing for a very famous unit from the ancient era that needs to introduction, the Roman Legionnary. Actually this topic is not about the current ingame Roman Legionary available, nor the Imperial Legionary, but how another legionary type would behave.

So first, defining what a Republican Legionary is. It’s a professionnal soldier, who’s equipment is provided by the republic, that will gain money for his active time in the roman army. They were trained to fight, but not only, they also needed to master engineering, crafting, building, and weapon maintenance, and maybe many other things that I forget to list here.

Combat wise, they mastered close combat, shield usage, ande missile weapon throwing, to make it short. It startes directly with a very polyvalent unit. And it would also need to be able to build/repair things.

Now abit of gameplay logic, the first thing coming to my mind is: “Camp Building”, the second beeing “Pillumna throwing”, and the third beeing: “TESTUDO FORMATION !!!”, and forth beeing: “Roads, romans needs Roads.”

About the road, I tested if it was possible to transform a Wall object into a walkable road boosting movement speed, and it is possible. Only issue, as it’s using the Aura mechanics, too many roads generate insane amount of fps drop so it’s only viable for custom scenario of small scale, not of big scale for now.
This part would requires terrain-table modification for allowing roads/path terrain type boosting unit speed based on some technology advances, like horses without horsehoe would have reduced speed on paved road because that would hurt their hoofs, mud could also reduce unit movement, but there we’re going on another topic which is terrain bonus, and it’s not limited to the unit I’m presenting here so will probably be core of another topic someday.

About the Camp building, Sicilian unique unit, the Serjeant, is the living example that non villager unit can build things. But the Serjeant behavior is limited to one building and is not what a Republican Legionary was meant to achive. My opinon on that part of the behavior would be to give the Republican Legionary the “transform” trait for them to switch between fighting unit and a “civilian” type unit. By civilian, here, I mean building capable villager-like unit, nothing related to my soldier becoming non-military guys.

Back to the transform idea, if you don’t know how the Villager behave, it’s not one single unit, it’s one unit per ressource/task to do, and their are linked with each other via tasking so they switch from one unit to the other. This is also why when you change gathering task, the unit loose it’s current gathered stock, because Village_Task_A become Village_Task_B, and devs decided to not carry over from one unit to the other their gathering storage. If I’m right, recently some mechanics got implemented in the game allowing some storage transfering, so it’s not impossible with the game engine, it’s just not intended at first.
So turning just a Legionary type unit into a Villager is way more complexe than you would imagine, because it’s not just Legionary ↔ Villager…In reality it is:

  • Legionary to Villager
  • Villager to Legionary
  • Lumberjack to Legionary
  • Miner to Legionary
  • Builder to Legionary
  • Farmer to Legionary
  • Hunter to Legionary
  • Gatherer to Legionary
  • Plus All of them able to switch between each other automatically

To spare some code, we can remove farmer from the list, as Roman Legionary mainly used to gather food, hunt, trade and pillage as they were soldier. This mean we can also remove Mill and Farm from the building list linked with the civilisation featuring the unit, and add something like Mule-Cart, but let’s not dive too far here, as the purpose of this topic is the Legionnary, not the Republic theroy.
So here, I’d think best choice would be to give thge Republican Legionary and their civ “worker” the ability to swtich from one to the other as the Ratha/Immortals can do with their linked transformable unit. This is to me the best way to handle the Legionary behavior.

Now we’ve finished with the “building/working” part of the idea, let’s speak abit about funnier things. COMBAT !

Let’s start with Pillumna Throwing. Simpliest way to handle that would be, as Ratha and Immortal, switching between ranged and melee. BUT ! This would be the wrong way to do it. Why that ? Because the Republican Legionnary, the roman core soldiers, carried FEW missiles, which were intended to serve as “first contact” surprise to disable enemy shields and wound some target if possible, not beeing a real ranged unit. For Auxiliaries, or later Imperial units, bow/sling can be a switch idea, but here we’re speaking about the goold old Marian Republican Legionary before the civil war that led to the later Empire.

So how would be the best way to represent the behavior ? Well, actually the game only provide us the switch unit method to change unit behavior from melee to ranged. Meaning it would need some code adjustment, on the “Charged Attack” mechanic, “charged attack” task 133 AND the “Special Ability” field. Idea would be to have as following:

  • Special Ability = 12, “Limited Volley Attack” ability, trigger “Special Graphic” on condition met, Max Charge not deplited, target within range, unit not engaged in melee fighting. (why 12 ? beacuse it’s similar to AoK dev plan on “counter-charge” on flag 2, so 2 + 10 = 12)
  • Max Charge = 3, integer value for the total amount if projectile to be thrown
  • Recharge Rate = 1.5, float value for second between every missile throwing, basically it’s an attack delay specific to that mechanic. Instead of recharging the Max Charges, it would consume them on set interval.
  • Charge Type = 12, “decrment Charge” behavior, reducing Maximum Charge by 1 every time the charge attack is triggered. (why 12 ? to be easier to remember the link between event type and special ability, this number is a placeholder here, as all my numbers in this example are)
  • Charge Event = 3, well while writing it, maybe it’s more here rather than on “max charge” that the total missile count should be sotred, to let the Max Charge field for the attack value of that projectile to thrown. I let it like that so you can read my brain process on the idea.
  • Projectile Unit = a new projectile unit for pilumna, no I won’t use Skirmisher javelins for this example ! It’s theroy, so let’s imagine devs add a real pulliumna unit ! let me dream <3
  • Task 133
    – Work Value1 = minimum distance of the target
    – Work Value2 = maximum distance of the target
    – Work Range = float delay to determine when the projectile unit is created during the animation
    – Work Flag2 = 3001 (placeholder value) for the core game to know what behavior to apply to the task
    – Gather Type = id of the projectile damage class (why gather type ? because it’s “Work Flag1” label on AGE,it’s a suggestion, not an actual mechanic)

That way, mixing Special Ability, Task, Charged-Attack and Projectile, it would be an ““easy”” way (for the game, not for human) to handle the concept of limited projectile volley for a melee unit like the Roman soldiers were used to fight. I know this part of the post was probably hard to read and understand, but it’s very technic part of the idea. Remember that the other, simplier way, to achieve pillumna throwing is just making the Republican Legionnary transform into a Missile-Throwing unit, but would make them, in my opinion, “too good”. Auxiliar troops would be better for that logic.

So now, what happens when the unit consumed all its charges ? Basically, making a special “Blacksmith” behavior, allowing Republican Legionary to replenish their Pilumna when near a blacksmith building, or a blacksmith type unit or wheeled cart roaming arround the battlefield with an aura to regenerate their pilumna. Basically a “pilumna monk”, in the same idea on the monk able to restore armor value destroyed by obuch, a blacksmith//weaponsmith could restore the Republican Legionaary missile stock. I won’t dive that idea more, because it’s just a custom behavior for a “monk-type” unit so here I’m not qualified to explain that.

And finally, let’s speak about the last thing, THE TESTUDO !
Here we’re once more walking into darkness, because the only logical way to handle that, for me, would be to add a new task that would modify unit formation-spacing / idle animations / fighting animations based on the current formation style selected, or addng a seond page for formation shapes, replacing the current “flank” icon with a “next page” icon, and then adding the “flank” to the second page, plus a “Testudo” and whynot the “Column” formation possibility.
Then, while coding the very specific Testudo formation behavior, devs could also allow the unit attributes/task to modify unit stats and graphics to produce ingame the famous Roman Testudo.

Another very easier idea to represent the testudo would be to add a “Resource” value for “Square Formation plus Hold Ground Stance defense bonus” on the civ resource values. That way, with very few code modification (at least I think ?), devs could provide not only the roman but also the macedonians, and the swiss, and a lot of civs, let’s say maybe … A Team Bonus ?.. For formation usage to give special boosts. Personnally, i’d trade the realism of the above idea for this one to be more general, but my heart would love to see testudo graphics.

In fact, I think that this resource based behavior for the stance is really a good idea, and could be exploited also for the Gaul fierce charging giving them bonus attack when they use Aggressive stande and either a special “horde” non-formation pattern, or the staggered formation already in the game.
As developper myself, I’d say that best idea would be to first implement Resource to handle Stance+Formation detection to alter stats, see how it goes into balance, and if it’s good, then think of a more niche behavior as the one I’ve listed with the task mechanics.
Even now while writing that, I realize I would propose better idea for that task, combined with that resource based idea, but hey, this topic is not only My topic, goal is fo everyone with idea to share them here.

Once more, we’re not asking devs to make thing here, we’re just speaking about how we would see a specific historical unit behavior repreented in the game, balance wise at first.

So now it’s your turn, how would you imagine it ?

2

This unit concept seems overly complex for little value.Meele + Ranged + villager.

3

Exactly.

Of course it would be the central piece of the civ using it, as in “nearly the only avaiable unit”. My goal is more to create custom scenario rather than thinking of balanced gameplay.

But a way to think about it would be to mix roles between multiple units. Roman Legion used to employ some worker that could be represented by villagers.

I’m just thinking, for now, of the Flemish Militia mechanic, a similar idea could be imagined at their “town center” (commander tent) that would turn all legionary into villager, and reverse all villagers into legionnary. That would spare the unit trait and reduce complexity of managing them manually. Like a town bell but instead of garrisonning units, making them take their arms and fight.
To balance that, the said villager-legionary variant should have less efficience than regular villagers from other civs, would cost Gold instea of food, as soldiers were paid in the legions, but would feature better defense capability, to simulate their equipmen. I mean, making them run to camp to rearm in tents would be cool, but would be too far from AoE2 spirit to me, so they should be able to turn from work to combat where they are, so they should keep their armors.
As the Serjeant put its shield on its back to build dungeon, that unit would keep their scutum on back, which won’t be historically accurate, but would be legitim for gameplay perspective.

To me, the two keys features are working capability and “first contact volley”, which can be done via very low recharge rate but actually the capability to shoot projectile on charged-attack is lacking in the game.

I really think this “first contact volley” is very important for the unit to be legitim, everything else can even be dropped but this one cannot, otherwise it’s just huskarl/teutonic knight style unit with another skin as the actual legionary is, a good soldier with good training and good gears, but not that key tactic that grant them so much high ground on enemy shield disabling with their pillumna.

4

A small idea came to my mind on how to mimic the “pillumna volley” mechanic.

If we assume the game allows us to make a special “ranged charged attack” once in a while when Maximum Charge is replenished, instead of making an overly complexe mecanism with ammunition account on the unit, which would go too far from what AoE2 is about to me, we can look at Kipchak / Chu Ko Nu approch. Both idea are interesant, but both behave very uniquely.

So first, the Kipchak, basically it’s a multi-projectile volley, one attack, multiple missiles, one beeing full damage, other beeing weak. To simulate the usage of Pillumna for disabling enemy shields, main projectile could have the Obuch attack type, but would requieres a special Charge-Type flag for its to be ranged, and armor stripping. That way we would requiere two new flags for the charge event, cause why stop to romans when many other civs could benefit from ranged charged attack event, like let’s say, boarding ships, special siege towers, mounted units. But let’s stay on the topic. So basically, a one shot volley that triggers multiple projectiles, with or without armor-striping depending on game balancing. Issue here would be, to represent the roman tactica, on said Republican Legionary the recharge rate must be long for it to stay a “Be carefull when you approach them” and not a “dammit why those melee units harass me from so far away !”

And now, let’s take the idea of a Chu Ko Nu like pillum throwing volley, this would have the advantage of keep the unit assigned to the ranged attack, like if they were throwing first pillumna, then second, then third. The key difference with Kipchak system here is that the attack takes time to be perform, locking the units in that ranged stance for their 2-3 pillumna to be thrown. It would also requiere the same new specific charge-event flag mentionned above, and I have no idea how hard it would be for devs to implement that. The risk is also that it makes either the Legionary very weak when enemy apears in range as the attack could not be canceled until charge is consumed, which mean the attack animation length is the time of the lock. Dev wise, this can be a tricky option because every unit using that system would requiere very, very, specific animations making and will not be flexible on the let’s say, increase projectile amount. Well, indeed I did not dive into how the Chu Ko Nu animation is handled, but I assume it’s a single animation implying multiple shooting stances appent together.
Another issue that could occure with the Chu-Ko-Nu style is about how the player place their unit, it can turns out to become a freaking wall of missiles on approaching, destroying entire enemy charging if not micro-managed. To me, it’s bad overhall because it would create an enourmous gap between casual way to use the unit and pro way to manage it.

Both of those idea come with another big balance issue. What about a playing doing the Goth-Rush strat of p’roducing tons of Republican Legionary from multiple building. Like instead of investing in survivability of the unit, focusing on their dualism in range and melee capacity.

To me, having that “Welcome” volley system beeing “automated” would probably be the bad way to bring it into the game. Or at least, would not give the unit what is deserve. Of course the ideas can be recycled for many other things in the game, and sometime that is the best choice for implemntations, but here we’re speaking theroy so we can let the devs choosing themself what they do, and us we can dream of things.

If we stay on the “switch-unit” (Ratha-like) style, the problem that we would face as player, is that we won’t be able to see if our pillumna are ready to be thrown or not while in melee, or we have to set a charge setup on the melee unit to see it. But once more, it goes way out of the box of AoE2 base concept of gamestyle. Also, if you use that charge attack mechanic on the unit to do the “Pillumna Volley”, then you sacrifice any kind of melee charged attack, which is also bad in my opinion. Why is it bad ? Simply because the actual Roman in the Game features an unique tech that adds said melee charged attack to infantry. That would make a way too large gap between actual Romans and Republican Romans.

At that point, the easiest way to bring that idea to the game is an Immortal/Ratha like switching mechanic, but let’s be honest. To make it balanced and legit, the delay between each pillumna shots must be long, meaning the ranged version would have special animations made by the art team for very, very little usage in the game. Money wise, it’s a total waste, making us, player, paying more for less, and that is also very bad to me.

Now I think about animations, for the unit to be even more legit it would require the pilumna to be visible only when available to throw, and the game actually does not feature any “idle” stance / move / dying / fightint stance for that purpose. This would litterally requires:

  • Base Animation:
    – Standing_x1, Standing_x2
    – AttackA_x1, AttackA_x2
    – AttackB_x1, AttackB_x2
    – Walk_x1, Walk_x2
    – Dying_x1, Dying_x2
    – Decaying_x1, Decaying_x2

We have here already 12 files needed, then you need at least 3 time more that, growing to a total of 48 file just for one unit that would use 2/4 of those naimation very few time in total. And this is assuming we’re not giving this unit the villager role which would even more blow the total amount of animation needed for it. Infact, right now I’d say the unit on its own would require about nearly the same amount of total file as an entire dlc animation budget allocation just for itself.

And let’s be honest, a dlc with only romans in it ? No one will ever like that, why ? Because it’s too niche, so it’s bad for the game.

Considering all that, which is not even a gameplay issue, for the unit to become viable it would require its very own new mechanics to auto-transform unit from one to the other, as a villager would do, and detect that it made the attack. The core issue here is that going that deep into the unit behavior will definitly reduce the amount of work the devs would be able to offer to the rest of the civilization. Probably resulting in poor choices on the rest.

This is were we finally see that actual Legionary in the game is maybe one of the best choice on how to add it to the game, without going too far from what the game is.

I am curious to see if anyone knows of a unit in the game that already feature special “on first attack” behavior very different from their regular attacking. I took a too long break of the game last years so I lack knowledge on most of DE added civilizations so feel free to share whatever you know. Maybe the game already offer something that would represent the Republican Legionary, without that much work.

5

Is this for Return of Rome, Base AoE2 or a new Chronicles release?

6

More for Victory&Vanquiser/Chroinicle style custom map ideas, but also about AoE2 base gameplay, as AoE2 and Chronicle share the same .dat file, which is not the case for RoR sadly.

But it’s mainly “ideas” rather than destined to become something.