Units That Still Need Attention

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Firstly thanks to the devs for the awesome patch, jaguar prowl knights are finally good and huaracas can now take down bombards. There are some units however that may have been overlooked and remain irrelevant or just useless so I’d like to highlight some of them so we may see a change in a future patch.

  1. Aenna - This unit is terrible mainly due to it’s firing animation, it’s impossible to kite with and is currently like a longbow but without the range.

  2. Cetan Bow - Similarly to the aenna the firing animation makes it very bad, it’s basically just a poor mans jungle bowman. I’m aware both of these units have faster fire rate at 1.5 but kiting is so important in this game that the end result is they both perform poorly in most situations.

  3. Flamethrower - This unit has a lot of upgrades and it got lowered to 3 population in this patch, unfortunately none of that helps when it can be kited by a musketeer. These are expensive units, especially in age 2 so they should be good. My suggestion is buff speed to 4.5 and increase range to 12.

  4. Pets - The pet cards for inca and aztec are often overlooked and they perform fairly well however in the case of the inca the age 4 card that buffs dogs should increase them by +50% attack and hp as they have very low base stats. In the case of the aztec jaguars the age 4 card should be free as it gives you the equivalent of 1200 food worth of jaguars and buffs them +50% yet for some odd reason this card costs 1500 coin.

  5. Pavisier - This unit is actually great now however my suggestion is to change the +1 range it receives in the imperial upgrade to the guard upgrade so it’s able to get 19 range in industrial just like the maltese xbow can.

  6. Hakkapelit - It was OP and then it got nerfed and now you never see them. Buff it’s range to 12 but keep it’s attack and multiplier the same so it can at least function as a slightly lower damage dragoon but with 1 area of effect on its attacks.

  7. Arsonist - quite possibly the worst unit in the game, far too low damage for an incredibly expensive grenadier.

  8. Jat Lancer - lower it’s cost or buff it a little, making it 3 pop would be too strong though.

  9. Aztec Fort - Not really a unit but the new aztec fort you get from an age 3 card has 3K HP less than a euro fort, less than half the damage and half the aoe. It’s attack also does not get increased by the town ceremony only it’s HP unlike war huts and noble huts. I’d recommend boosting it’s stats and make it’s attack increased by the town ceremony or at least make it rebuildable considering how much weaker it is.

I’m sure I’ve forgotten some units so please share any others you think of.

2

I think they are fine, They should be thought of like skull knights, something the opponent has to run away from and try to kite and focused down which leaves them vulnerable to be snared and focused down with other units.

The lesser pop of means you can pop a group of 5 from a castle and just burn down buildings at startling efficiency with 5 pop to spare

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3

I don’t find it the new pavisiers that great, sure having the guard and imp upgrades always available now it’s better than relying on cards, but they get a couple of more HP through the guard upgrade and lose 5% resistance, that while also having less HP in age 2 and 3, and less range.

And on top of that italian pikes and halbs were also nerfed.

4

Yeah, they’re awful.

Arsonists should just be outlaw types. I mean it’s just an angry dude throwing burning torches.

Indian Rocketeer siege troopers should replace them.

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5

I think the arsonist should just be an asian version of the grenadier, same stats otherwise different skin

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6

I think every units you mentioned apart from mercs and fort, are fine as they are. It is perfectly fine to have a subpar unit in a civ’s roster as long as there are other strong units. Specially aenna and cetan bows don’t feel particulary bad given your cav would be snaring the enemy army.

7

I have a question. Are there default units in the game that have specific stats like former Musketeer and Halbardier for Russians civ?

If they are, you can make new Unique Units and maybe even Buildings as in the last update.

8

I think they’re poor at high level, in a competitive ranked match for example it’s impossible to pop 5 flamethrowers because they cost 340 res each. Also at 4.25 speed by the time they catch up they’ve already been focused down. I like the unit it’s cool but just so ineffective currently.

Personally I find them great, they’re pretty much a tankier version of the maltese arbalester now and considering hp is always better than attack they’re really excellent units. Even with the nerfs the guard tech is giving you more hp overall and more attack.

Agreed or perhaps just make it an outlaw but currently for 8 of them it costs you an entire 2k coin mine which is just crazy.

That could perhaps be said for aenna and cetans because if you snare with cav they can still put out decent dps like a longbow but if the other units were fine we’d see them at least rarely and the flamethrower I’ve seen like 3x in 1k games other than the duck squad card, I’ve never seen anyone make peruvian dogs or aztec jaguars, never seen arsonists apart from the day after they got the rocketeer card, same with jat lancers and since the nerf I never see hakkapelits.

9

There is a couple of old flamethrower builds that has been around since forever that is always used as a sort of cheese that can still win you games at like 1500 ish, after this patch that build only gets better.

They also never need to actually catch up they are basically there to force kiting and forcing the opponent to move back and they cant move into their base since that risks the flamethrowers just riping through the main base

The poping 5 thing is more like poping an opri mass into the opponent’s base rather then a sort of cannon pop, its definitely not something you would try to do just to mass them

Training 5 flamethrowers is like going 7 falc, it will be an investment for you push the base or end an army right then and there

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10

I guess it can work every now and then as a meme strat but in general the unit performs poorly without an entire build made for it specifically.

11

and thats fine I think, I dont want this unit to be a thing china has or even want to make every game, it makes china weirder then it already is.

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12

Like I said, apart from mercs. those mercs are indeed a bit weak. Pets are just a flavour/bonus/meme units, so I don’t think they will ever be useful to send in a multiplayer game. And imo, they never should be.

13

This should be fine imo. Some units should just be high risk - high reward. Also many units shine in different gamemodes. Tr20 and FFA are where flamethrowers really shine.

14

I’d stick Manor Houses here as unique building that needs a new skin, as it has different costs/HP/etc
As mentioned in other threads, I’d actually change that name to Cottage and the model to a quintessential British cottage (little stone wall and gate surrounding it), justified by the fact that Ensemble Studios obviously had ‘unique’ view that all the houses settlers were building were mighty Manors! The reality is that Cottages were super-common and Manors were just for the gentry (and in fact would have the estate workforce living in cottages). Manor Houses could be referenced in Shipment form.

Also the Terraced Houses shipment could give your Cottages a facelift to actual Victorian town houses along with a name change.

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15

Of course, now we have to reskin unique buildings…

16

I will add a few more:

Grenadiers: The unit is seldom used in age 2, and not at all in age 3 and onwards. The problems is that they are too fragile, and get one-shot by cannons. I would advocate that they 1) add some siege resistance to barely survive a direct falconet shot, and 2) remove their damage malus against artillery (and maybe even add a small bonus against artillery). Additionally, some of the Grenadier technologies and Ar–senal techs probably needs a review.

Indian Mercs (Jat Lancer and Arsonist): Jat Lancer need to have their stats readjusted, Arsonist need to be replaced by the Rocketeer.

Spanish Tercio Pikeman: Given that Espadachin Rodelero exists, it is really hard to justify researching and creating the Spanish Pikeman. They need something unique, and different from the Swedish Dalkaral upgrade. Maybe 25% HP increase?

Portuguese Dragoon and Yabusame: The Russians and Aztecs cannot counter these 18-ranged light cavalry, since their skirms/slingers are short range. Maybe reduce their range to 16?

Changdao: The unit cost almost the same as a musket, but loses to musketeers in a pure melee fight, and is worse against cavalry than both qiang pikes and muskets. I would advocate for them to have a bit more hit point while reducing their speed to 4.5. This way, they can at least work as a meatshield. (Maybe also give them a card that allows them to do a bit of splash attack, but that might be too strong…).

Disagree. Correct me if I am wrong, but Skull knights can snare, meaning if they catch your units (say in a flanking attack), they are dead. Flamerowers don’t snare, and deals damage in continuous streams rather than bursts, meaning that if the enemy is very reactive, flamethrowers will only do a little bit of damage before having to chase and reacquire the target.

Furthermore, Flamethrower, along with Mantlet and Grenadiers suffers from the “one-shotted by falconet problem”. While their ranged resist is high, they are effectively high value artillery targets. Either these troops need some siege resistance, or most artillery need a minor attack malus against the Siege Units class.

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18

All good suggestions. I like the synergy of the arsenal age up and free tech with grenadiers, perhaps if they lowered that to 800 food it might get used and free incendiary grenades helps them a bit. I agree with adding the siege resistance though.

19

again its not like a direct comparison but its the type of unit that your opponent has to prioritise or else they are in deep trouble and that directed attention is like 60% of the value of the unit alone

another unit that kinda has this tendency is the griot, which is very slept on and just a mass of 10 is enough to swing battles and divert attention. when combined with akan muskets which also kinda commands your opponent’s attention, its a deadly mass.

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20

Overall, in age 4 they gain 3 extra HP and 2 extra attack, in exchange for 5% less resistance and 1 less range, which are arguably more important.

Considering that the attack buff is also dependent by how many units you have, and that in age 2 and 3 you have straight worse stats, I believe that it’s overall a nerf, although I recognize the practicality of having the guard upgrade always at hand reach, and that it’s a slight buff for treaty.

21

So heres the thing: aenna are low key chads its just…sadly otto and de stuff exists thats just op.

Lets explain why. As you said their animation is ass. But whats not? Everything else. 110hp base with warchief for always very beefy light infantry. Inherent 2x vs heavy inf. Good melee. Most of all speed 5. All.for 100 food on.a civ that can 2 to 3 card them in age2. With 2x age2 shipments.

These thing demolish xbow, and kill most bow types in a shoot out. Dont use them to poke, use them to force the opponent back, commit cav, and allow you to force battles or give your tomos.plenty of time.to seige. They also unlike most light infantry have no issue brawling in melee(tip: vs LBs just run them down you’ll smoke them or make them not get.max value of their dps if they retreat, lots of dps for you either way)with very solid hand attack and hp. So why do so many people not see how strong these are?

3 reasons…1.is they arent forrest prowlers. FPs are one of the best skirms in game and handle far smoother. Its also by design that aenna fall off so its natural and purposeful to regard them less.than FPs. 2- players often use them like skirms jist poking and not utilizing their speed or hp so ofc the weakness appear most here. But imho most of is 3- DE light infantry is powercreeped. Not all, but abus, fulani, natives, jungles, light cannons, 22 range sharpshooters or tanky state militia, beefy salteadors also fastish, all of these new usually high speed/damage/range often all at once make the older designed light infantry, that was meant to fall off early, look like terrible. So ofc vs otto or usa theyll feel trash but vs france or spain or russia they really are great units.

Cetans fwiw are supposed to be meh since lakota is very strong in cav. But they slaughter musks which is their job plus they do ok vs alot of other light infantry

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