Unlimited Map Bans?

Do you think there should be unlimited map bans for the ranked pool? Say for example, a guy who only wants to play Arabia and literally nothing else. Same case for guys who only want to play black forest. That might stop people from quitting the game if they join a map they don’t like.

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Do you think there should be unlimited waiting time for matches?

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It depends on prime time. I seen guys whining about getting black forest/amazon tunnel, and just quitting after getting such a map.

I see the exact same thread posted in this forum every 2-3 weeks :roll_eyes:.

Currently unlimited bans are impossible as the algorithm first finds a match and then compares map bans.

The player number is simply too small at the moment for this approach to be viable. While the que the for Arabia would not change much it may increase your wait time for a specific other map from 1 to 20min → if that happens almost all people will que for Arabia simply to find an opponent → this makes it even harder for people who still que for another map.
→ unlimited bans would mean even people who don’t want to play Arabia would que for Arabia because they don’t want to wait half an hour to find a match… That would not be a good system.

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Yeah. The wait time could break the ranked. Will have to live with start game quitters I guess.

I think one solution (but haven’t worked out the details) would be to stop granting/removing elo after the third game on the same map until a victory has been achieved on any other map. But it sounds very rough like the way I just described it, I think my idea has merit, but definitely needs refinement.

Main problem with my idea is that it would be easy to park your elo somewhere low and bash lower level players.

Yes. If the player chooses to play only one map, and that map isn’t popular, then they can expect a long wait time.

In fact, it would be really helpful to display wait time by map. Imagine seeing an ‘current average wait time’ displayed below each map on your map ban/pick screen.

Could the quantity of online ranked players be a symptom of not being able to pick your map / alt-F4 responses?

I don’t think so. The number of active online AoE2 players is higher then it has ever been in the last 10years.
I remember that in 2011 there were about 10.000 active players on Voobly/Gameranger. Now we have about 100.000 active monthly player just for AoE2:DE ranked (not counting unranked, the HD Version and Voobly). And there were only about half as many ranked player when DE launched…

unlimited bans and punishment for dodgers.

that’s the method of any competitive online game.

but what I really think is the silence of developers on this long issue is disgusting, such negligency will kill the game.

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I’ve made this point before and I’ll make it again:

If you can have unlimited map bans, you either need to make it so that a player has an ELO rating for every map or Rating becomes absolutely, totally, worthless.

Once you can pick what map you can play, you can pick your favorite map all the time, climb the rankings, and have an unearned ELO that is impossible to identify is essentially falsified on inspection. A 2k Arabia-only player vs a 2k Arena-only player is an absolute joke of a matchup where the winner is almost certainly going to be decided by what map is given to them. You can go more polarized and say 2k islands player vs 2k Arena player, but I think you get the point.

Ratings are absolutely irrelevant if you can choose what maps you want to play. Either the entire elo system has to be scrapped, or elo will have to be assigned on a per map basis. Unlimited map bans do not work in the current system and any suggestion to implement them without an accompanying system to address the elo concerns it presents are useless herein.

getting really tired of having to make this point every Alt-F4 thread when the Alt-F4 crowd just says “give us unlimited bans and we won’t Alt-F4” because they can’t stand the idea of deciding what spot to dock.

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Like if TG ladder matters 11111111

There is nothing more irrelevant and absurd at this game than 3300 elo players and 3k player with 1200 1x1 elo.

Also there are one map pickers in the 1x1 ladder, plenty guys that only play arena, even a lady streamer who gets +200 elo playing only 4 lakes banning arena and arabia grants her 100% playing that nasty map, your rant is only applying in your mind cause they already make fun of the current system and maps, so why aren’t you complaining about that? i mean that is real and has been a thing since the preferred option.

Unlimited bans or more bans like i said in other place is just a temporary fix, players will also close the game when getting really low or high allies cause that only means unfair games for them.

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I hope you all see this. I’ve answered this same salty poster about 20 times in threads about map selection, Alt-F4, preferred maps, etc, and always it’s the same.

“What about this.”

Never a comment about how I’ve literally obliterated their position on the subject. Never a concession about the factual nature of the issues arising from their suggestion, or the current system. It’s always one of two deflection options: “system is broken because we know people want to play certain maps and we’re not letting them” - “there’s way worse problems” where the first is a personal opinion, not a point to be argued, and the second is literally the worst argument in the history of arguments.

Take this fine example here:

I have been complaining about this, literally nonstop, since this began. In every thread.

As if you’ve simply missed the point of people disliking the Preferred map option despite making said point yourself. Not only did you deflect my point, you deflected my point… to my point. Preferred map is just a softcore variant of what the OP is pushing for with the casing of Alt-F4 being the hard shell. The system is already being abused to reach incredibly high ELO ratings while ignoring well over half the game’s assets. The OP is simply asking to make this abuse of the system and ELO imbalances now the default setting of the system.

Which is absurd. I’d like to see that changed. Not doubled down upon.

ban every map

replace TG ladder with blind random + random civs

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The best thing would be forcing people to go random civ in 3v3 or 4v4 TGs.

The reason people have stopped arguing with you is not because you “obliterated” them but because you keep ignoring and disrespecting our arguments, the above message is no exception.

The only thing I can concede is that you’re definitely the best at insulting people here and doing so in the most subtle way possible. But that does not mean you’ve won the argument.

Your “argument” is that basically, if people who only play one map didn’t exist, the system would work fine, and so it must be their fault. The rest is mostly insults and telling people how they should play the game. Won’t argue against that.

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you mean randomized maps choice instead of knowing what map will come next? :slight_smile: Because that actually sounds like good fun

No, my argument is that the system as is, creates an environment that rewards Alt-F4, which is bad, and also results in an ELO system that means practically nothing, both of which are bad things, and we should be looking to solve these problems as quickly and as effectively as possible, rather than arguing about which problems are the worst and what we should do first.

I don’t ignore your arguments, or any other arguments. You just don’t like the answers I give.

As for “insults” the last time I got accused of insulting someone it was as a result of telling someone that they had made what is literally, objectively, the worst argument ever. I guess that could go without being said, but it happens so often (the argument being that we shouldn’t solve a problem because there’s another problem, associated or not, that is also a problem) that I thought I’d make it clear that this is absurd and that people should stop doing it. If you take that personally, I’m sorry.

Aside from that, again, instead of providing an argument against my position, it’s deflection, this time by making a strawman of my position and then insulting my character as opposed to actually debating anything I’ve said on the matter. To be fair, I’ve heard what you’ve had to say on the matter, I’ve debated you across multiple threads. It’s not a shock to find you’ve decided to call it quits on this front. It’s just a bit disappointing that you won’t quit in peace.

Current system sucks. Unlimited bans would be an improvement as other features could be added like clustering maps for separate ELO, estimated wait time per map (or cluster), etc.

Or keep it as is. Altf4 is not that bad.

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lol at people telling that creating separate MMR for different maps is such a sorcery xD

In Starcraft2 there is_

  • different mmr for 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4.

  • also different mmr for EVERY team premade you have.

  • different MMR is you play unranked

I mean if forgoten empires wanted to fix this problem, they can make another MMR for non-conventional play: BF, amazonian tunnel, Regicide, fortress, michi, LN Nothing.

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I have another suggestion: unlimited favorite maps (or whaterever that star near map called).

The origin of idea of unlimited bans is not some kind of abuse to raise your MMR. Well some people may use it this way. But the main reason is to avoid not fun maps.

At least that’s the case for me. For me it’s only a game. Only a way to have some fun. I don’t care about my MMR. I like to play open land maps. I don’t like closed maps (arena, hideout) and water maps. It’s just not fun for me. It’s ok for me to play these maps sometimes, but only sometimes. And it would be nice to mark all open land maps as my favorite maps.

I know some hardcore players say that ranked is meant for competitive play. And I totally disagree here. Ranked is only the way to find players of same skill level. Because same skill level it’s mandatory to have fun games.

P.S.
Also I don’t understand what’s wrong with using ban/favorite system to raise your MMR. People who abuse system this way will finally reach there limit and will have equal games. Why do you care if some’s higher than you? I don’t think any of you compete for top 20 on ladder.

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