I checked the aoe pulse website.
Hindustani and gurjaeas camels bonus seem to be just too much.
The attackspeed and bonus dmasge civ bonuses need to be tnee down by a few percentages and it will be fine.
Als teutons at spot #7 on Arabia all elo. A map where there defensive, slow, siege orientated play isn’t 100% viable.
Guess what that means on maps like blsckforest or Arena. Teutons are busted.
IF you watch spirits of the laws new video about history of aoc Civ, you can clearly pinpoint where they spillraed out of control
IF you out min elo 1000, teutons even go to #4
On Arena with min elo 1000 teutons are again #7. Worse than I expected but still top tier on any non water setting.
Compare that to Portuguese which Go from second worst on Arabia 1000 elo to second best on Arena 1000. Maybe due to organ gun rush Strategie
Neither Gurjaras nor Hindustanis ever stray from other top civ’s winrate, so I don’t see how they can be busted while civs like Berbers and Huns are fine. Same for Teutons, they always have a similar winrate to Celts, which are super good on closed maps but never judged as “too good”.
They have a 1.81% playrate at 1700+ which has sub 10k games total, which means a very small sample size and not going to give very good data.
Id take any arena stats with a huge grain of salt as the sample size is miniscule.
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Although you are mainly talking about team games, I wonder if a general buff to battle elephants would make sense. I mean we now have so many elephant civs but none of them are really using them except maybe Malay.
I think a food cost reduction could make a lot of sense 
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Buff elephants. They over nerfed them.
Bengalis have such a low WR because everyone and their cousin is trying to use elephants
It’s like trying to use Tatars and relying on SL and keshik before the buffs.
This will still be a problem though. But maybe they can find another way around it by simply being a slow steam rolling civ
Reverting nerfs on EA already helps Bengali and dravs the most. I still wonder why they went for the “potentially underpowered on release” instead of “potentially overpowered on release” route. Makes no sense. Like literally either the hp or the skirm nerf. Release them. Adjust as required. Like how Hindus are potentially OP, but can be tweaked down.
And they still need to adjust the LS viability(TT or f:g ratio whatnot) which buffs drav as well.
I think it’s less about the camel bonuses as such but rather about them having strong counter units to whatever your opponent throws at you (their powerful camels are one of these units ofc) while having good eco. It’s a bit like incas with mobile units, better eco and less reliance on gold.
Maybe the winrate is so low because people try to play them when it simply doesn’t make sense? I mean you don’t go elephants as castle age opening. At least not in 1v1 (also not the best tg strat tbh).
You can go arb and/or monks as imp opener and then transition to elephants if you get the proper eco behind. Granted for tgs that’s a pretty weird transition but in 1v1 bengalis are a pretty well rounded arena civ (good units and good eco).
The sample so e is irrelevant for this patch. Why? Because we have seen these same results for teutons consistently over 2 yeahs of patches.
Really? Overall data on aoestats has teutons sitting at less then 51% winrate with around a 2.5% playrate.
Ageofstatistics.com has them sitting at consistently the same stats since October of last year.
So basically the last year of data says balanced and average winrates and playrates.
So please provide your source for them being consistently op for the past two years, because the last year says otherwise.
The only place their numbers get even remotely “high” is closed map playrate (4.5%, but the winrate is still balanced) and the recent patches small sample size.
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Thinking about it more and considering the role EA fill in both drav and Bengali, I think they should partially revert the following:
Accuracy from 70% to 80% (aside from Bengali being unnecessarily reliant on paiks, the EA low dps for cost is already detrimental enough)
PA from 2 to 3 (more agile xbows and CA do too much damage to them, especially things like Britons)
Cav archer armour from -7 to -5(skirms shouldn’t counter them so hard)
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But this is a chicken egg scenario. And from the sounds of it you seem fine that the alternative means both civs have almost exactly the same play every match. Because they both have almost no choice aside from arbs
I really don’t think Devs sat around and said “Let’s release 2 new civs that play exactly the same as existing civs, except with fewer options”
They clearly meant for players to use elephants. When most games are decided by mid castle age, you saying eles should only be viable later, is counter productive
“You don’t go knights as castle age opening” said no one, ever.
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In the leaks the Bengali bonus was 33% less bonus damage for eles, I suppose it had to be lowered in playtesting for a good reason.
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You can use them it’s just a late game unit. You need huge eco to mass them. How is that a counter productive statement? The unit is designed to be insanely pop efficient but also very expensive because of that. So it simply doesn’t make sense to produce them early castle age. Even monks hard counter them although it’s an archer.
Bengalis can play arbs, rathas, halbs, light cav. They have good monks and good siege. And if it gets to post imp battle elephants and elephant archers. Because you have such strong eco thats okay imo. Not great but also not the worst. Dravidians indeed have quite a lackluster tech tree but also not less so than other archer-infantry civs.
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Just wanted to say that due to a lack of data on the current patch I’m going to have to remove empire wars from the site. I made an archive copy of what the graphs looked like for the 10Oct2021 - 16Nov2021 (p01_v02) and the 20Nov2021 - 26Apr2022 (p02_v02)periods which can be found here encase people are interested:
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totally means they are going to remove the EW queue amirite
Additionally the “Closed map >1700 Elo” group also just doesn’t have enough data yet either 
I think I will hold off from updating the main site for a few more days until I get enough data rather than start deleting more groups, in the mean time here are some more plots to keep you all entertained…
This is for 07May2022 - 16May2022 (removing the first week where people are doing pure random stuff). Let me know if there’s anything else in particular you would be interested in seeing.
Solo, Open, >1200 Elo
Solo, Closed, >1200 Elo
Solo, Open, >1700 Elo
Team, Any, >1800 Elo
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Do you happen to have playrates? There is a lot of range here
Nice data, thank you!
Bengalis just average for closed maps and bottom tier for team games doesn’t surprise me a lot, granted, as you say data is still small, interesting though.
Thank you again.
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Lol Gurjaras new top Arena civ?
The civ seems indeed pretty strong on arena. I haven’t lost a single game with them here and I’m approaching 10 games. Having the camel in early castle age is huge and if you have proper BO (eating the sheep after boars run out is by far the best one imo) you can open light cav for relics and still add tcs basically immediately. Not a lot of civs can compete with that. And once you get mass chakrams they eat everything in a matter of seconds. Add to that bbc and possibly shrivamshas and this counters basically every unit comp.
