Upgrade Burmese Team bonus

The Burmese team bonus is almost useless:

  1. Seeing the position of the relics at the start of the game is strictly useless, as the monks are available at Castle Age.
  2. At Castle age, the bonus is almost useless, as players already know the location of most of the relics.
  3. Relics cannot be located once in a monastery.

I suggest that the Burmese team bonus offers the possibility of :

  1. View relics with + a 5 boxes radius around the relic to see if enemy units are nearby.
  2. See enemy monasteries containing one or more relics (permanently).

OR

  1. A technology that costs gold and would allow temporarily the player and his team to see the position of enemy monasteries containing one or more relics.

I exclude the possibility of seeing, free of charge and in real time, the enemy monk carrying a relic (OP), but the technology imagined above could give temporarily the location of monks carrying a relic.

For example 100 gold - Enemy monks carrying a relic visible for 10 seconds.

3 Likes

The Team Bonus was alright in the years before team LoS was shared straight away without a Market/Portuguese ally, but since then it’s been more than useless.

I’ve commented on this multiple times but I believe it would be better if the TB was made into a regular civilization bonus for Burmese with no further change to it, as not only would it remain exactly the same (since your allies will be able to see the relics whether it’s a TB or not) AND it provides space for a brand new Team Bonus like the ones you’ve suggested, OP.

If I may add an idea:

  • Monasteries +10% HP

Monasteries are a common target during sieges, so extra health can give defenders a little more time to protect them before they lose their relics, and can synergize with several civs like Byzantines, Georgians & Armenians.

3 Likes

Currently Burmese don’t have any Team Bonus as the bonus would work the same if it was civ bonus.

I don’t think a buff though. So a very weak TB like Elephant units +2 LOS can be given as a new Team Bonus.

3 Likes

+10% is very low. +50% would be good imo.

The Relic visibility should apply from Feudal Age, it will help them in Nomad starts to see only villagers at the beginning.

And this would lose the main advantage of this bonus: Power determined where the opposing TCs are, therefore being able to delay its exploration and therefore, being able to bring down more deer while knowing where to attack in the first seconds of the Feudal without having impaled its scout (essential during of any early Feudal rush). On certain Maps, this bonus loses interest, it’s true. Updating the position of the relics at each age change would solve this “problem”.

2 Likes

This might be good change too!

2 and 3 are okay, 1 is not.
Burmese player should be able to see the monk that is carrying relic

yeah but if they see permantently the monks carrying relics, it’s kind of OP. Opponent will have no chance to get relics. If you see the monasteries with relics it’s already a good bug coz opponent will have to build monastery in his base.

It will be more complicated to build a monsatery forward.

I like the bonus “seeing the relics position at the start of the game”.

I personally do not find any of your suggestions satisfying, because I am not interested in “long term shenanigans” like relic location
Seeing the relics at the start just like seeing the opponent TCs at the starts (vietnamese bonus) are fine, even though they become useless very early on.

For me either we say “since the shared vision change, it is nit a team bonus anymore”, and we move it as a regular bonus while giving a new team bonus.
Or we say “Burmese are too weak and do not perform very well on any map”, and we give them a straight buff either on eco and military.

I won’t argue about buffing the civ because it is my main civ (“I don’t need more rrason to play them, as I already play them”). But I will say that if they have to get buffed, I would like to see a monk buff, as they have by far the worst monk among “monk civs” (Lituanians are somewhat close, but got team fast monastery and heresy)

I support making the Burmese team bonus into a civ bonus and giving them something else, but I’m not sure what that something else should be.

There were times when Portugese were underperforming and they got a new team bonus of researching technologies faster with berry bonus later on, then Shared Exploration setting was added in team games. It’s definitely good for them, but Burmese…

As mentioned above, I agreed. Some people actually noticed it very well. Burmese team bonus is the most awkward and useless among other team bonuses since it became overlapping with Shared Exploration setting, making it have the same effect if it were a civ bonus like Vietnamese Enemies starting TC revealed on the map.

I am also in the favor of putting it as civ bonus and giving a new team bonus not only to make them stronger but also to end its awkwardness with Shared Exploration setting. Moreover, the current conversion changes and Devotion upgrade also affect Burmese gameplay. I’d like to give some options as new team bonus if it happens:

  1. Monks +2 LoS
  2. Elephant Units +2 LoS

Worse options

  1. Monastery upgrades researched **% faster (can be 33%, arguably similar with Lithuanians but faster, the difference is that it doesn’t affect Monk/Missionary production)
  2. Relics generate wood in addition to gold (economic approach similar with Aztecs and Burgundians)
  3. Generate +** gold after successfully converting a unit (worst option, not impressive change, also more suitable as a civ bonus)

2 years ago, I also proposed Burmese a civ bonus Monasteries slowly heal units (except siege weapons and ships) in 7-tile radius to make them stronger defensively and offensively. But in the end Celts received that kind of aura bonus with their Castles. Those five options seem not to be good proposedly, but the current Burmese team bonus feels more wrong with Shared Exploration setting.

2 Likes

I like the idea of giving active LOS around relics on the ground. It would be a neat way of knowing what’s going on early. Something like 5 LOS would be nice.

I think it’s not a good option. The bonus will be good if nobody takes the relics but useless if players collect and garrison them unless the effect always reveals the Relics whether they are on the ground or are garrisoned in monasteries (which slightly helpful if enemy collect 1 relic). In the end still, players tend to collect relics. Very helpful in early game, but nearly useless in the later game

The point would be early game map awareness, not anything lategame. IE, if you see the enemy scout is over by the corner, you know you can attack more safely.

However, I’d say anything can be fine as long as the current awkward team bonus is changed

I agree, here are some options:

  • Monks +1 Range
  • Infantry +2 attack vs cavalry
  • Monasteries cost -20%
  • Elephant units trained 20% faster
  • Builders work 10% faster
  • Garrisoned units heal +200% faster (40% of herbal medicine)
  • Relics generate +30 wood/min
  • Wood sources last 15% longer
2 Likes