Useless exploration cards

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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Specifically the ones in age 1/2 that ships a dog and a hot air balloon respectively. There isn’t any build on any civ that can get better milage out of these upgrades than, say, more vills/crates/military units. I cant even think of a way to rework them to be even somewhat comparable.

Given that I’d say they should just be built into to explorer. Starting with the simpler one, make it so the hot air balloon a thing that just becomes naturally available at age 3 like how crackshot just shows up in age 4. As for the explorer stat upgrade card, focus on the unique perks they get and drop the stat boosts and dog; in age the British explorer gets the swashbuckler ability, the Ottoman explorer is faster, Spanish dogs get stronger, etc.

Should make for a harmless but flavorful change since most the euro civs kinda feel a bit samey out in the initial stages.

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I always felt those should be church upgrades rather than cards.

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Thats another option that would make sense. Some could maybe be techs in the TC - play that ‘explorer is the colony leader’ angle a bit more. Theyre neat features and damn shame theyre unsusable due to being chained to the HC.

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I agree, those cards should just Church (or even TC - at it’s the initial building) techs.

In lieu of the shipment card itself, they could introduce one that changes the euro Explorer to Euro Commander/Officer card turning it into a combat orientated and bolstering (to other units) - losing the range of the explorer musket, the sharpshooter ability and the ability to claim treasures (so you would be reliant on settlers picking them up), gaining a short range pistol, and auras that boost HP and rate of fire.

Basically it opens a few new options - do you ship in the Commander upgrade early, disregarding exploring in favour of early military, or save it until much later on where everything has been explored and the Explorer’s abilities don’t fit the flow.

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5

Or in Barrack / Dock.

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Yukon map, Russian civilization, Russian explorer card in 1 age, build existing and made by many players including Aizamk. Best concept for Italy

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as únicas civilizações que tem bonus decentes para exploradores são astecas e japoneses dependendo do mapa

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os desenvolvedores deverian dar mais bônus para as cartas dos exploradores europeus por exemplo uma áurea de bonus HP, DMG mais mais XP mais velocidade para essas cartas ou apenas integrar a card de balão junto com a card de HP e o cachorro junto para compessar enviar essas cartas

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that’s just designed for PVE players for fun. so it is no need to care about their strength.

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Thats not an existing angle lol. Explorers are exactly what the name implies and thats what they are good in. They dont lead the colony.

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I think the other way round. More church or arsenal upgrades should actually be cards so players have to choose between them due to limited deck space. Asian civs and native civs have to send cards to do the same as counter infantry rifling, or cav hp or artillery upgrades or speed upgrades. They occupy a lot of deck space while european civs can get all of them in late game, only need one deck slot (advanced arsenal)

Same for church LOS upgrades which a lot of non european civs dont have. And training speed upgrades. Civs without church/mosque have to send cards for it which again take up deck space.

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It was mentioned one time in the tutorials.

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it literally says “the leader of your colony” in their in-game unit descriptions lol

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14

The idea is to add a change small enough to leave balance alone but still feel flavorful - I doubt any civ is gonna gain/lose 5% win rate just cuz the exploer got one more treasure.

Removing church/arsenal techs as cards… then the already fairly samey euro civs are gonna look like discount asian civs.

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There is a space for a discussion if/what cards could/should be included as baseline upgrade-research options, but overall outside of that I don’t think there is such a thing as a useless card. Unless it’s designed to be. But even a card that gives some utility or cosmetic options is valuable for someone in some way. Most people don’t play (comp)multiplayer or MP at all, and when playing solo or coop the term ‘value’ can have a rather wide meaning.

When it comes to cards mentioned by OP- I disagree with both examples. I mean they could be included as research. But that goes for the majority of baseline cards, like upgrades to productivity, mercenaries, training times, watchtower limit, or factories. And the other way around for some things.

The game is designed around (fantastic!) shipments-civ customization mechanics and picking and choosing cards to assemble a set is a skill requiring knowledge, plan, and is a joy in itself.
I never felt like boosting explorer’s HP and giving him an animal companion is crucial in any way. Especially as the time went on and different hero classes were introduced. Some civs don’t have a card like that, for many balance reasons. Just like not providing that upgrade for free or without a card.
With advancements in age he gets stronger and can take bigger and bigger treasure guardians on his own.
Using an explorer card is a decision. The decision be more aggro in play and exploration and sacrifice important card that would be used instead like free vills, resources, and gathering rates.
That is not a universal decision, and the game plan varies between civ picks, maps, modes. Making it always available makes the game slightly more shallow. For the cost of what, making it slightly more streamlined.

When it comes to balloon it might be more suitable, at least for few European civs, but most of the points still stand. It’s an investment into field recoinessanse and I don’t see ballon to be so important and irreplaceable and even mandatory, that it should be a normal upgrade.

You can just send a scout, cheapest horseman or trash native to scout the map and it works fine. It’s not the same and the balloon can be super powerful and match-saving/changing but that is another argument for why it should be gated within player shipment inventory.
As the match goes on its value grows, and searchable cards don’t really grow in cost. They can, or every age can offer a ‘different’ ballon that can be trained for different cost, but that’s just making things more complicated and bloated. Time for these changes was maybe in 2006 or 7, or around the release of DE. Same for the purpose and usability of priests, medics, spies and few other units or mechanics.

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European civs would still have better units and more upgrades in late game.

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You mean the upgrades that only show up in treaty? A game mode Ive noted you staunchly avoid?

That aside, whered you get that european civs have better units that Asian civs? Ive never seen a redcoat beat a sepoy or ashu when they all wear thier best duds. You got forest prolwers here, bow riders there, better explorers, passive consulate bonuses, etc.

The only definative advantages euro civs have us that they can take artillery fights.

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Late game. Not treaty. Supremscy 3v3 4v4 tends to get to age 5 as well.

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The civs I play, Inca, Hausa, Chinese, Indian…dont have advanced arsenal, only Hausa has regular arsenal. No church, so the units are lacking a lot of upgrades in late game. Also no spy, no train speed upgrades from church. European tends to max out at around 50% hp and attack for units in late game, my civs usually end up around 25% to 30% hp and attack.

Lack of good artillery is huge, it is not a snall thing. Especially late game you want some units that does long range area damage because there are so many units, no area damage means not killing fast,enough.

There are also upgrades that cannot be quantified. Like the infantry speed from advanced arsenal, my units moves slower than europeans, i never catch up with them while they can walk around in my base. Also European artillery has speed upgrades, China or India artillery is already very slow, and even more slower than europeans, make it difficult to micro. For china we need to send cards to buff arti but those cards are rarely inckuded in deck. While europeans have advanced arsenal.

Cav archer or dragoon: European get 2 extra range, not for my civs. It is big disadvantage of both players micro properly.

For water map, euroean gets the heated shot upgrade, my civs again dont have. European gets water advantage again.

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No church

Churches…give lategame tecs. Do you mean captials? The civs you mentioned get most of those techs in the TC or unique eco buildings in age 5 anyway.

no spy

Yea that means nothing - they fail at their job.

no train speed upgrades

Those are built into the unit upgrades for Hausa and other stat boosting cards for the other civs

European tends to max out at around 50% hp and attack for units in late game, my civs usually end up around 25% to 30% hp and attack

Complete cap. All unit upgrades amount to +100% adding up veteran to imperial upgrade’s. Card techs vary between on combat card for 15-20% and up to 30%. Arsenal can give +10-15% attack or hp to gunpowder units and cav. Your civs have cards that give stat boosts with more multipliers and/or resistances as perks so it does balance out.

There are also upgrades that cannot be quantified. Like the infantry speed from advanced arsenal, my units moves slower than europeans, i never catch up with them while they can walk around in my base. Also European artillery has speed upgrades, China or India artillery is already very slow, and even more slower than europeans, make it difficult to micro. For china we need to send cards to buff arti but those cards are rarely inckuded in deck. While europeans have advanced arsenal.

Unless you mean to say 'Swedes" whenever you say ‘European’ then all that is contingent on sending advanced arsenal and getting buying the techs on top of it- which people hardly ever do outside of treaty. A game mode you often say you dont play.

Cav archer or dragoon: European get 2 extra range, not for my civs. It is big disadvantage of both players micro properly.

Its already known that China has bad anti cav, but Hausa DO get the range upgrade. Indian have the Howdaw that comes out with 16 range.

For water map, euroean gets the heated shot upgrade, my civs again dont have. European gets water advantage again

Euros dont have the obscenely beefy siege elephant, or culv/howiters with hand mortars, and Hausa DO have heated shot. There’s also xebecs and ####### being stronger than frigates
And here’s what you do have:

Hausa

Train speed built into unit upgrades

  • Better ruyters starting in age 2 - you get the extra range from the regular arsenal

  • Better hussars via lifidi and raiders

  • Better longbowmen

  • Cards give you around +15% attack/hp as standard but also more multipliers or resistance

  • Artillery that costs influence but also shadow techs starting age 3.

  • Better EXP gain via universities

  • Politicians on crack ala alliances

Chinese

  • Your entire unit roster is weaker but wins on cost effectiveness and you have both better eco and +20 popspace.

  • Mini factory via Porcelain Tower as early as age 2 and then an actual factory later

  • Consulate for passive perks and extra units

  • No euro civ can have +30% hp/attack on artillery - not even ottos and swedes.

  • A house you can garison and a practical way to leverage livestock - the fastest gathering food source by far.

Indians

  • Better redcoat

  • Better cuirassier

  • Better war wagon

  • Better skirmisher

  • Better Rodelero

  • Extra univeral combat card via Tover of Victory

  • 3 siege elephants - the absolute best anti siege in the game

  • Best trickles in the game

  • Aforementioned consulate perks

The basic roster is comparable to the best euros got, eco is generally better, and all you need to do disable the artillery and time the shipments right. The Asians are goddam fine.

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