Vote - Dravidians civ design analysis

It’s facebook streaming, so idk how the link works. I was watching it live, it was great :smiley:

As usual, this forum in censoring everything.

forward slash v forward slash (/v/)



You might be better off if you have a facebook account. I don’t have one, so it’s a huge pain in the butt.

Thanks. I’ll see it later. If I’m not asking too much, may you also mention the time stamp?

I quickly skimmed the video, he starts reacting to these forums at around 3:20:00.

No idea if he continues for a while or not, watching it as I write 11

Yeah, I think it might be more convenient to just put spaces everywhere in the link, I can only assume the randomly generated letters in URLs is what the censor thinks is bad (but it’s weird as you posted the entire URL in two parts and didn’t get censored 11). The forum censor truly is a mystery of the ages.

I don’t think so? It’s pretty much raw data, so every game you’ve played gets tracked there and tournament games are shown by their lobby names. So your best bet is filtering by Unranked and then by opponent. But it’s not really meant as a way to track your tournament matches.

Liquipedia works for that apparently, there’s a head-to-head filter? If you want to get that game on aoe2insights, you’ll just have to find it from their history, which will be tedious (especially if it’s an older game, where the analyze function might fail at anyway)

Thanks. That will help.

I really want to check civ stats among the top 10-12 pro players in tournaments.

You can filter by civilization there too, so… filter by opponent, civilization, and then Unranked? Not sure if that gives the results you wish. 11

Tried quickly doing so with selecting ‘played civ’ as Dravidians, unranked, and opponent to be Hera. It gives me Hera as Dravidians for some reason, so I suppose it’s not working perfectly, but I guess you can tediously gather the stats this way. It’s also a little awkward since I don’t know if the filtering works perfectly when a pro player has an alias, so you’ll also have to make sure the correct name gets filtered ### But I assume it already takes into account player aliases (since you can see f.e. Viper’s aliases there, and when you search for players even their past aliases can bring up results).

Do note that not all games end up on aoe2insights, I’ve had some games I’ve played unranked there not show up (not all games get recorded which might be why? All ranked games should generally be there but again, not 100% sure).

Anyway, Viper’s reaction to the Dravidians thread (and this thread) was a bit funny, though he’s not going to really have an insightful opinion as he’s not going to read through the 1k responses (and the posts he did see on the main thread were from a year ago). With this thread though, even he forgot the Siege discount for Dravidians. 11

I went to the timestamp mentioned later, and I saw my icon in some of the topics!

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You can check here. GL.TheViper's statistics - Age of Empires 2 - AoE2 Insights

Yup! Thanks man @filtercoffee488 Viper too sees the civ as a novelty rather than the abomination of a design that it is. At least he was honest about his opinions.

The easiest way to resolve Hera vs Viper argument on Dravidians is Best of 21 in all maps of “Champions invitational” tournament with Viper as only Dravidians and Hera playing completely random.

I guess I’ll stick to Liquipedia. 11

I was thinking about the same. Except it will be all 42, Hera will have free pick excluding Dravidians, no repeat and map will be pure land maps only (Open, semi-open, closed, semi-closed).

What about having both Hera and Viper make a tier list on 2 or 3 maps (1 open, 1 semi-open, 1 semi closed); and on each map they make a BO5 where Viper picks Dravidians only and Hera only picks civs (no repeat) he rated above Dravidians and Viper rated below Dravidians ?

That would be more fair for the civ choice. And if therecis not at least 10 civs available for Hera, then one of them is lying about their pre-Tierlist rating of Dravidians.

I wish I could say “Take my money”. But I’m broke. Can you make a reddit post and ask the community to fund this event and settle down the banter?

What absolutely definitely needs to happen is that the Dravidians should get access to Knights (upgrades can still remain disabled).

Imma just leave this here

Medical Corps needs to be buffed and they need Redemption, thats all.

Anything more than that will break the civ, which is already very strong on Water Maps. The combination of 5 pop per Dock + Wood on Age up is incredible there, it adds up to so many savings that can easily snowball Galley fights.

Their problem is Open Land Maps, specially early Castle where they lack good responses to Monks and Siege.

You guys are going waaaay too far with this redesign, its not like Dravidians are awful, people are just playing them where they are weaker (Open Land Maps)

Medical Corps need the Chatras treatment, where they doubled its effectiveness in a patch and it suddenly became a very good (but not broken) tech!!!



Nice way to completely break the identity of the DoI civs… They don’t need Knights, you just need to avoid picking a NAVAL INFANTRY CIV in Arabia

Oh come on! The stable for the Dravidians is too weak right now! That’s why I call for the Dravidians to have access to the Knight while the upgrades and as well as Bloodlines still remain disabled.

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Oh brother, I don’t disagree their stable absolutely suck.

I just don’t think adding Knights is the way to go, if people really want to make their stable viable, just give them Elite BE and make Medical Corps useful. Adding Knights will just break their identity for no reason in my opinion.

Also I stand by what I said, they are already a top tier on Water Maps, this idea of pushing them to be viable on Arabia will eventually break the civ entirely.

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Right. That’s why just replacing a naval bonus, preferably the extra fish carry capacity, with a land one will do the job.

They are weaker in closed land maps too. Anything that does not have at least 15% water, Dravidians is weaker.


In my experience (I don’t have stats to back it up or anything, just personal opinion) they aren’t as bad in Closed Maps.

They can deal with Siege using BBC and Wootz Steel is an amazing tech, makes their Infantry have the most dps of any army in the entire game… it really is something else how fast even their Halbs can shred through enemy units.

Their problem for Closed Maps is of course Eco and Timing, also specifically for Arena, their lack of good Scouts and Fervor is a problem when fighting for Relics, but assuming you can survive until Imp, they are fine. This is in my opinion another argument for making Medical Corps useful, so they have at least an option to go for in Castle.


Against the vast majority of units, slavs are better and it isn’t even close (excluding urumis).

That isn’t necessarily a problem, but you are still wrong.

Also, dps isn’t that good if you lack survivability. That’s why urumis are rarely, if ever, used in tournament games.

You can’t buff medical corps because if increase it too much, ele archers will start countering skirms. That is not acceptable imo.

Also, this does nothing for weakness to knight-skirm-mangonel. It also doesn’t give them any scouting/raiding option. Redemption will help a lot, but it doesn’t solve the issue.

Also, stop saying that they’ll be broken on water. Everybody here has thought of that. We have been proposing water nerfs with buffs on land. You aren’t saying something groundbreaking here. (hold on, this isn’t the dravidians are terrible thread. But the point still stands, people have thought of this already)

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Thats why I never said they are a top civ for Closed Maps, just said they aren’t as bad as people make them out to be.

That would require way more than doubling the effect though, considering how cost effective Skirms are against Ele Archers.

I never said I was saying something groundbreaking lol, such passive aggressiveness, chill out dude. Just saying that it wasn’t the approach the devs took with Portuguese or Malay, they didn’t nerf any of their water bonuses and those civs just became broken on Water.

Not every civ needs every strategy to be viable, otherwise what is the point of the diversity? Viper for example doesn’t seem to agree there is anything wrong at all with Dravidians, and while I don’t completely agree with him (I do think they need Redemption), I also don’t think they need many changes like better cavalry or a raiding specialist unit.

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