Wall/tower rush

Can someone explain to me how its February and the devs haven’t adressed the maddening stone tower/wall rush strategy. It ruins the match to where I feel like I’m not even playing a Age game, regardless of if I counter it or not.
They fixed the mongol town center rush by placing a area where they couldn’t build one withing a certain distance of the enemies. Why not walls? I’m only left to assume the devs intended this to be a play style???

Idk how many people would agree with me but I actually feel like this is a valid play style I mean, think about it from the perspective of the person doing the stone tower rush, they’ve invested a very large portion of not all of their economy to gathering stone and maybe a little food and wood for spears/rams to make a push, if anything goes wrong, if you get behind the stone towers and start burning them, if you’re able to reach age 3 and get trebs out and pull back, if you’re able to counter ram, lots of things could go wrong and then the entire tower rush is dead along with the tower rusher’s eco, but this applies to any rusher, yes it’s hard to withstand the initial onslaught but if you are able to protect your vitals (wood/food) you can survive and rebuild somewhere else, you can also easily build a market (at least in team games or maps with natural markets) and use that to supplement your gold income and trade for whatever else.

Yes it’s annoying, but in my opinion so are normal rushes, but 8/10 times they can’t pull it off right, and it ends up screwing them

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I agree that tower rush should be a viable strategy, but the risks of tower rushing needs to be greater. Build times for even stone walls remains rather quick and you only need a 3 stone wall segment to throw up a stone tower.

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I also agree stone tower rush should be a viable strategy, however if I were to make some changes to it, I would like to see stone wall segments take slightly longer to construct.

If the strategy is played in a way where the stone wall towers are placed out of the enemy line of sight (although this takes more skill and gamesense) - a slightly increased build time for stone wall segments should have minimal consequence.

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Yes I agree as well. We only need to to increase stone wall construction time. Its general issue with walls. Other than that a stone tower is a expensive, risky but a valid strategy.

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You all make good points. However, I’m not so much concerned with it being a “viable” or legitimate strategy. It certainly is defeatable, and comes with risk to the player using it if it fails (although I think its a bit too easy to implement, should be more expesive or slower). If a player wants to use it, then so be it. The game allows it.

My concern is that gameplay such as this detracts from the spirit of the game. Kind of like wall snaking across the map. When its all happening, you have a epiphany that your not actually having fun, because it detracts from the core elements that (in my oppinion) make a good AOE game. This is regardless of if its easy to counter or not. I feel the Devs recognized this with the Town center rush. It was certainly counterable, but it wasn’t their intention for that element to be used like it was, so they modified it.

In my opinion, the Tower/stone wall rush is quite similar in this regard.

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I get that it’s frustrating to deal with tower rushes ad nauseam, but it should be part of the game. aoe3 placed an artificial limit on forward towers.

I suggest that there should be more ways to punish tower rushes. For example, slower build time or higher costs in Feudal age.

The main issue is still with Chinese civ because they make walls/towers extremely fast. For any other civ if you are scouting your opponent properly you can react in time against a tower rush. And it hurts opponent a lot.

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This is a vague and not go great example. Mongol TC Rush isnt rly countered as it was done within the first 3-5 mins of a game, unless you managed to spawn and take 15 villagers away from your TC, the mongol would just plop their TC down garrison it up and kill any villager you tried to get away. The same isn’t true at all for tower rush.

(Because the villager building the towers can’t get in range of ur TC, but the TC cart could waltz right up and plot down without being seriously damaged.

This really is just a subjective topic, as I feel the same way about early rushing / ram rushing, but I recognize it’s a viable way to play and shouldn’t be changed just bc I don’t like it.

Do I think it’s a cheap strategy? Yes
Do I think we should change the game bc of it? No

I was mongol tower rushed yesterday and got my ■■■ kicked, it was super annoying but I still felt like I had a fighting chance and lasted to 44 mins with the support of my teammates. We did loose but it was certainly able to be countered. We ended up destroying the towers and pushing back, we only lost because of skill level, fair and square.

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Yes… Because how I managed to counter a now defunct strategy is besides the point. As I’ve repeated said, my argument is regarding the spirit of the game.

Yes… That’s why I said it was my opinion.

My opinion is that stone wall towers with springald emplacements shouldn’t exist until Age 3 with all the other springald related technology.

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It is supposed to be defensive and in some cases it is ideal to defend your base using stone tower. Especially against English. You can put your archers on wall and tower one-shots archers if they are too close. You can defend your base with this. Age up get mangonel and you can push back. I don’t think pushing it to Age 3 is a good idea. It gives early aggression even more support except it will be army based e.g mongols and english will have much better chance.

Also you are forgetting. The stone you put on stone tower is enough for you to put second TC. That can be a huge investment compared to single tower. It all comes down to priority.

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Misconception in this thread? Feudal age tower rush is only legit viable with China since they build stone walls as fast as regular civs build palisade walls (4s). So China can legit build a 3 section wall for 45 stone in 14s and immediately drop down the outline of the stone tower and have the villager build the tower from the safety of melee units and taking 66% less damage from range units (50hp becomes effectively 150 hp). Then that stone tower builds as fast as a regular villager building a regular wood tower (side note there is a bug in the Chinese tower building timers…they SHOULD build even faster than they do atm…). This strat is cancer on certain maps where choke points and hills are present, so you can’t get around the tower.

The stone tower issue is even worse in castle age when the abuser is delhi since they lose no villager seconds making the walls and tower, maa can definitely defend themselves and or taking the beating as they quickly build the towers AND delhi gets a 20% stone discount!!!

I suggest STONE towers be moved to castle and suggest ALL WALL building times increase by double. I also believe STONE wall hp needs a nerf in feudal and get an Imperial upgrade that makes them much much stronger than they are now. Lastly it should be cost/time efficient to repair walls as opposed to letting them break and quick walling th broken section back up.

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Stone / tower can be defeated but those rushes require a lot more response than other strategies. Would be cool if it was somehow limited through changes so that the idea was “well now I need to secure a new gold” vs something like “now I need to spread my vills across the entire map to avoid getting destroyed”

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That’s one possibility, but for certain civs (i.e. pre-patch Abbasid), a defensive stone wall/tower or tower with springald emplacements were one of the few things that could help them survive a Feudal all-in.