War Wagons are a bad idea for a 80 pop civ

[Ekdal1378]

Specially in team games as Dutch (which get Buffs every patch). Also, imperial upgrade after just 1000 coins is too cheap for a coin focused civ.

[dansil92]

i have no idea what you’re trying to say here

[MUTYLATOR5553]

War Wagons should be replaced by Dragoons in Germans civ. The War Wagon should be moved to the Bohemian Revolution or the Hussite Camp (which could be a Holy Site offering a bit archaic siege engines - Trebuchets, War Wagons and Hákovnice).

[TheClaymore2004]

South Africa revolt?

[Bramkurtzio]

@MUTYLATOR5553

Trebuchets

I am not so sure about adding trebuchets to the game. Siege weapons like trebuchets were apparently phased out around the mid-15th century in favour of gunpowder weapons, therefore adding them to the game would be very out of place.

However, a unit armed with a staff sling could possibly make an appearance in the game. The staff sling is described for being a handheld catapult or grenade launcher which was used for throwing grenades well into the age of gunpowder.

Maybe there could be an historical battle for the French that features the Couillard, which was a type of a trebuchet developed by the French that has a split or two counterweights. The Couillard did apparently continue to be a practical weapon well into the 15th century and even into the 16th century.

The name for this siege weapon is also funny since “Couillard” means “A man’s nuts” in old French (I’m not kidding). I couldn’t include the specific word for said body part in this post due to censoring, so I settled with the closest meaning to the word that wouldn’t get censored.

The image below shows a late Roman or Byzantine soldier armed with a staff sling.

[Ekdal1378]

South Africa (available for Brits and Dutch) after its rework got a card that replaces deagoons/ruyters for WWs at stable and upgrade them to imperial by paying just 1000 coin.

[Ekdal1378]

Germans are balanced around pop slots, or they get a huge economy (99 + 40) or army (pop heavy and expensive units)

Then, giving them light pop units breaks the balance.

[M00Z1LLA]

@Bramkurtzio

I am not so sure about adding trebuchets to the game.

It would be cool as a Spanish unique unit.

@M00Z1LLA

Cortez’s Trebuchet

When it comes to archaic meme units, Cortez’s Trebuchet is by far the best option. During the siege of Tenochtitlan the conquistadors were running low on gunpowder and decided to build a catapult as a way to conserve gunpowder. Gameplay wise, it could be a one time shipment for an age 2 siege unit. It could function like a Culverin since the only thing it was effective at destroying was itself. A Culverin equivalent wouldn’t really be overpowered in age 2 and it could give Spain the option to commit more to age 2 aggression and still have a counter to Falconets from an opponent’s FF. It could also count as an archaic unit for the Reconquista card.

[RhythmicBoar556]

It should have a mechanic where every time it fires it damages itself due to the shoddy construction of it.

[EricTheRed283]

@MUTYLATOR5553

War Wagons should be replaced by Dragoons in Germans civ. The War Wagon should be moved to the Bohemian Revolution or the Hussite Camp (which could be a Holy Site offering a bit archaic siege engines - Trebuchets, War Wagons and Hákovnice).

Age III card Princely Bavarian Chevaulegers card replaces them with a Dragoon like unit for anyone who doesn’t like the feel of using War Wagons.

The way it is allows people like me who have played AoE III from the beginning to still play Germans like I always have or play them differently which is perfect.

[Moonshadow7475]

This is also over the top because of the buff to the dutch church card no longer nerfing movement speed.

[Bramkurtzio]

@M00Z1LLA

It would be cool as a Spanish unique unit.

Cortez’s Trebuchet would be better off as a cheat unit, rather than being an actual unit for the Spanish. I am not really sure why you think it would be “cool” to give them a weapon that ended up becoming a failure. If there really needs to be a catapult unit in the game, which will be available for a civilisation, then the Couillard would make more sense which will be an unique unit for the French.

When it comes to unique siege units that could be given to the Spanish civilisation then the Pedrero and the Ordoñez Gun sound like good contenders as suggested by @HoopThrower.

@HoopThrower

There’s an entire spanish school of artillery weapons, you don’t need lombards that are already a building name.

According to this, these kinda cannons were called “Trueno” in spanish anyways. . Pedreros are also a very typical spanish cannon variant that’s not ingame, they are basically mortars that fire rocks rather than normal projectiles. If you want something more modern, there’s the Ordoñez Guns from the late 19th century.

Anyway, back to the topic for this thread I wonder if it would be possible to increase the max population in the game to 300 in a future update. Maybe that can help civilisations who are reliant on military units that takes up many population slots like the Germans and Lakota etcetera.

[Aisharp]

That would be a ranged petard, seems like it can work in current game engine

[Ekdal1378]

@Bramkurtzio

Maybe that can help civilisations who are reliant on military units that takes up many population slots like the Germans and Lakota etcetera.

That would be a nightmare, worse for civs lacking AoE damage.
Germany doesnt need 140 villagers and 100 WWs or Doppels.

The game try to be balanced around population and thats why civs with less villagers but equal economy overperform in some modes

[Kingfisher1787]

Imo the tech needs to be +2 bank build limit for -20% all Building hp. The removal of the speed nerf was nice and makes Dutch more fun, but the new nerf (-20% bank hp) was too insignificant.

[surxenberg]

Germans have always been balanced around eco vs military potency. In FFA/Treaty, you can just delete 40-100 villagers and start queuing new ones from 5 TCs. Playing as Germans these game modes, you will want to have medicine in your deck anyways, becauuse it reduces training time and resource cost for settlers and SW. 2 mills + 3 TCs is equivalent to training from 7 towncenters, no other civ has that in Fortress. Germany has a pop cap problem, sure, but they can afford to stay on a 40villager+20SW eco for quite a while. And in supremacy 1v1 none of those things make a tangible difference.

[Ekdal1378]

Germans arent an issue, the issue is South Africans which seem they have to be overpowered in some way