Lithuanian elite/imperial skirms (normal elite skirms in imperial age take 4 dmg per hit while Lithuanians take 2, and Lithuanian imp skirms take 1)
Saracen Mameluke + elite skirms/HCA (Mamelukes do lots of damage vs them, Mongols don’t get ring archer armor so the HCA can deal with them, and skirms are just powerful vs cav archers)
Briton longbow + elite skirms (both of these for reasons already mentioned and longbows have enough range to give Mangudai a hard time running away)
Turk/Tatar hussar + HCA (hussars because they can chase the Mangudai down and have extra PA, and both Turk and Tatar cav archers can directly engage elite Mangudai with equal numbers and cost efficiency)
0voters
UPDATED VERSION BECAUSE I CAN’T EDIT THE OTHER ONE
Berber genitour + Camel archer (Self explanatory)
Lithuanian elite/imperial skirms (normal elite skirms in imperial age take 4 dmg per hit while Lithuanians take 2, and Lithuanian imp skirms take 1)
Saracen Mameluke + elite skirms/HCA (Mamelukes do lots of damage vs them, Mongols don’t get ring archer armor so the HCA can deal with them, and skirms are just powerful vs cav archers)
Briton longbow + elite skirms (both of these for reasons already mentioned and longbows have enough range to give Mangudai a hard time running away)
Turk/Tatar hussar + HCA (hussars because they can chase the Mangudai down and have extra PA, and both Turk and Tatar cav archers can directly engage elite Mangudai with equal numbers and cost efficiency)
Korean war wagon (these guys have 8 PA and 200 HP while having 13 attack when fully upgraded)
Bengali/Dravidian pure elephant archers (although all EAs will win with equal numbers, the Gurjaras miss PT and ring archer armor, so good luck with that)
Dravidian elephant archer + elite/imp skirms (both EAs and skirms fire 25% faster, so you can have the EAs sit in front taking and dealing lots of damage, and the skirms in back can and will shred the Mangudai with lots of bonus damage)
With this, I am trying to list unit comps that are not too expensive. The heavy camel + HCA is very expensive, but you don’t have to have more than one castle because of Sipahi and Silk Armor, so I rank this one as good because you can make lots of archery ranges and stables. The war wagon on the other hand, is very very expensive in wood cost, but I do agree that it and probably elephant archers and/or ranged Rathas could effectively deal with them.
But you simply don’t make ca camel comp. I mean maybe you played camels midgame and then transition into ca so you could have both units on the field at that point but you won’t produce more camels then. You make hussar as meatshield otherwise you’ll never have enough gold to constantly reproduce both units and start flowing food.
Hussar ca from turks and tatars will complety shred mangudai hussar from mongols once you have full upgrades. Camels you’d go as gurjaras or hindustanis though (but just pure camel then as long as you have the gold to afford it).
I see your point. In a 1v1, this is true, but in a team game where gold is of little to no concern, you could really go either way. I will edit it to the hussar instead of camels.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, I really just want to say “There isn’t one, you probably just lose”. Like sure, it’s possible to beat, but I don’t think special comps are going to be that helpful to plan out, it’s kind of more something you have to deal with on the ground, preferably before that point. Like long before that point.
best civ overall probably is Lithuanians if pop efficiency isn’t a concern, and Turks with extra PA Hussar if pop efficiency matters. To a degree, Paladins in great numbers (Persian ones come to mind) can work too. And then Camel archers.
The issue with Mangudai has never been so much the Mangudai itself but the fact that it’s hard to push Mongol castles (Mangudai runs in snipes all trebs and loses only 4-5 in the process), and if you mass something like Skirms, there is the inevitable Hussar switch that overruns into your eco and it’s GG.
Eh no that’s not true. Hussar ca from turks and tartars win vs mangudai hussar. Same for camel archer hussar and ca magyar hussar. The raw stat advantage these units have over mongols rather low pierce armor units are just too good.
Yes mongols can add siege here while for opponent that’s very difficult but just adding couple of siege ram won’t change the outcome (I played turks vs mongols post imp countless times and it’s always the same outcome: turks win). If you wanna win composition wise you need SO here but that’s not too realistic in most scenarios as fully upgrading mangudai hussar and then keep producing these units is already very expensive.
Recently I won my side in a 1v1 against Berbers as Mongols on African. He was even more boomed than me. Played around 2600 TG rate I believe.
Mamelukes are one of the best counters, Ranged units usually do bad when the mongol mixes in rams and does a big train, which is what I did against the Berber.
I’d say Mames, Paladins, Imp camels, and WW are ok counters. Skirms are bad because of how easy they are to deal with using any of the other good units Mongols have. Longbows are fine, until rams are on the field too.
I don’t mind having Rattan Archers against Mangudai, nor eg Tatar heavy cav archers.
I don’t think either of those is as good as Camel archers, but with the depth you’re going into in the poll, the Mongol siege should probably also factor in, at which point things get too complicated imo. (And also I don’t like Berbers at that point anymore.)
There is no doubt that Lithuanian Imperial Skirmishers trade the most cost efficiently with Mangudai. However, if the Mangudai are part of a bigger army composition, and/or you want to do other things with your unit as well, and/or it is important that you can chase the Mangudai down, then Camel Archers look promising.
En mass siege onagers fired in quick succession of the others rather than all at once. Use pikes/halbs to help protect against scout raids, and other methods when needed.