What do you all think about the new mode and the new DLC experience in Age of Empires IV?

The new roguelike mode is interesting, and it does meet and provide what single-player users have been missing, but the population cap still causes terrible development bottlenecks for the player while giving the AI—who can expand from multiple fronts right from the beginning—the biggest advantage.

As for whether it’s balanced… I can’t say for sure. At the very least, the gameplay structure feels very straightforward and crude. Personally, I don’t feel any proper player growth curve or progressive pacing. The entire mode moves too fast—almost like it keeps pushing the player forward. Combined with the frequency of raider harassment and the random event layout depending on the map, the pace of player development feels completely disproportionate to the pressure being applied.

I don’t know how the studio designed it, but currently the mode heavily relies on faction advantages, and sometimes it even forces you to reroll the opening. If you want an easier time, then just pick the current meta favorite — the Mongols: stack the Pastures + Outposts, then use Mangudai and heavy cavalry and you can handle most pressure. And ideally, you should reroll into an opening that gives you 1000–2000 stone, so you can immediately start mass-producing Mangudai at the Khan tent while the pastures generate gold. Meanwhile, some factions are just pure suffering.

In the end, this mode feels like nothing more than an extra gameplay option — the game does not adapt the content or experience based on the faction you pick. Because of map and resource layout, some factions are naturally crippled, while others snowball effortlessly.

That’s my opinion of the new mode: very rough, very direct. And of course, the next update will surely attempt to fix balance issues, and those fixes will likely create new problems — but honestly, Age of Empires IV has always been like this. I’ve gotten used to it, even if that kind of numbness is not necessarily a good thing.

But now I really want to know:

What do you think of the new DLC and the new mode?

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200 is within the realm of what all the others in the franchise offer. It’s a good target to reach for; working with constraints is a core part of the strategy experience. Being able to build infinite units isn’t strategy.

More via mods is entirely possible. Maybe AoE IV needs the population cap cheat from AoE II: DE.

I think the Crucible is fantastic, and rewards players for being aggressive (which generally the AI doesn’t handle well, at least in any RTS I’ve played). I wouldn’t call myself a “good” player though. I’ve always been on the more casual end of things r.e. my actual physical skill.

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Well, I’ll speak for myself and my friends.

We have no interest in the new roguelike mode.
Honestly, I haven’t played it and I have NO interest in playing it.

The reason is quite simple:
I bought Age of Empires IV to play the standard mode, which is the mode that represents the original and official gameplay that made and still makes most people want to play.
Sometimes I play in “Wars of the Empire” mode, just to speed up the combat.

Some modes I only tried once… I thought they were bad and never wanted to play them again.

Returning to the topic, regarding the roguelike mode…
But I even saw some YouTubers doing live streams, saying “wow, this new mode roguelike is incredible…”.
They only played for one week at most and then abandoned it.

Because this mode roguelike doesn’t replace the standard mode. It’s just an extra option and nothing more…

The example: - I can give is how I compare it to another game, called Counter-Strike 2!
For me, CS2 is all about the competitive mode.
It’s very rare that I test another mode… basically, I ignore the other modes.
Age of Empires is the same for me.

  • NOTE: I bought Age of Empires so I could feel like I was playing Age of Empires… if I want to play another mode, then I’ll buy the other game specialized in that other mode. That’s basically it. My friends think the same.

Honestly, for me and my friends, it doesn’t change our lives at all whether or not this roguelike mode exists.

—> It would be much more worthwhile if they had simply dedicated themselves to bringing new, totally unique civilizations and some new campaign.

That would change the feeling and bring more happiness to the community!

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From my perspective, this roguelike mode feels extremely rigid. Unlike other roguelike games where players can fully utilize mechanics and experiment, this mode even removes the option to build walls and forces players into a predefined playstyle. Army composition and progression are also very fixed.

It never adjusts the experience based on the civilization the player chooses — instead, it simply throws one universal system at everyone. Whether you like it or not, you’re forced to accept the way it was designed.

Can it be played long-term? Based on its current pacing and structure, I don’t think so. It gets repetitive quickly, and the lack of strategic variance makes it boring over time.

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I asked a friend, and apparently this mode is basically something the devs took from a mod creator. What the official team actually added was just a talent/perk system on top of the mod…

So no wonder it feels this rough.

Hmm…

If they’re really using and buying ideas and work from modders… honestly, I hope they start looking at modders who are developing unique civilizations! That would be important.

There’s a modder team called: —> “Future Kingdoms Studio

Links:

discord.gg/rV5n9VpeCP

They are working on creating the following civilizations:

  • Poland
  • Scandinavians
  • Vietnamese
  • Persians
  • Berber
  • Lithuania

Obviously, it’s clear that the “Future Kingdoms Studio” team is having difficulties developing the architectures, but the official developers can handle that later.

I hope they pay for these guys’ services or hire them, just like they did with the old “Forgotten Empires” team.

We need people interested in creating new and unique civilizations.

I hope this becomes a reality sometime in the future.

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Can’t play the new mode. Tried, but you have to buy the DLC to do so (which wasn’t clear at all until you read the in-game screens in full), which I won’t be doing for a long while or ever. But, I can say from experience, the new mode (Crucible) in the DLC isn’t for me. I’m not usually a fan of endless waves of armies coming. For the tower defense game Defense Grid, I like it. But not in FPS games, not ARPGs, and probably not RTS.

They’re really missing out. Low-hanging fruit DLC that I’d pay $10-$15 for is proper UI icons, farther back zoom at minimum (but preferably also with better camera angle and a dimetric projection view), and 500 pop max without the need to use 3rd party DLC. Once I had those, then I’d probably be buying this and other DLCs. Until then, I’m good with playing vanilla game once in a blue moon

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Campaign missions are, pretty much universally, structured differently to the standard skirmish / competitive mode you said you prefer.

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I think the official roguelike mode directly borrowed a mod from a creator called Sunrunner. As for the modders you mentioned who carefully craft unique factions, I honestly feel both touched and saddened. Touched, because they consistently put in effort to bring joy and better experiences to the player community; saddened, because of the pace and certain actions of the official developers.

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You just spoke to my heart. I’ve always hoped to unlock more population so that the battlefields in Age of Empires IV would feel more like real-scale battles rather than village skirmishes. Unfortunately… the developers still haven’t unlocked it. But as I mentioned in another post, this is probably related to the game engine — something they haven’t been able to solve all these years.

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Is this the mod you are speaking of?

yes its sunrunners mod

I don’t think 200 max pop is game engine limitation because there is a mod I’ve used a number of times that lets max population be at least 500, which is what I set it to. It maybe even goes to 1000 max, but I’ can’t remember. I can try to get you the name od the mod later if you don’t already have it or can’t find one. It doesn’t work for ranked games, though.

I hated playing with 200 max pop, and would probably only play it once per year if that is the only option. With 500 max pop, it makes the game more bearable for me, so I can at least play once a month or so.

Fix the zoom and UI, and I’d play more than that and would be much more willing to buy DLCs

You haven’t understood some of the game’s underlying problems. A mod can unlock a 1,000 population cap, but because of engine limitations, once the map population passes a certain threshold the group movement of formations completely bugs out. The Essence engine is only suitable for small-scale yet high-fidelity physical interactions — it’s the engine used to make Dawn of War and Company of Heroes — and a game in the style of AoE4 exceeds Relic’s actual capabilities.

Which AoE game requires 1,000 population?

I don’t think any of them do.

Retold and AoE II: DE can go that high (in AoE II it requires a cheat). But the original games couldn’t. AoE III doesn’t go that high, full stop.

I get folks wanting to play with higher pop caps. But they’re not a core, integral part of AoE. The fact that things can bug out in IV doesn’t mean that it “exceeds the dev’s capabilities”. Things naturally have limits. Older games can get away with more. It’s common for non-programmers to have no idea about this, and I don’t expect you to. If there’s ever an AoE V that’ll also have limits, regardless of the engine.

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In what way it completely bugs out? I’ve played a number of games at 500 pop, 2v2AI, and have not seen it bug out. The AI still meanders around with clumps of military at 500 max as it does at 200 pop. Not sure I have ever witnessed beautiful formations.

I’m not really to surprised to hear this. AoE3 has many limitations and guardrails

…for you. I’ve been playing higher pop cap for a decade or more. It’s pretty core to me. If devs all the sudden put an AoE3-inspired hard cap in AoE2, I would stop playing it. 200 pop for me is nothing and I would bump into the artificially low ceiling in 99% of games mid-way through. Deleting certain units to make room for others is very boring gameplay to me

It isnt rocket science to have some ideas for what is or is not possible. Non-programmers can have observational skills. I’ve observed enough to know that a 200 pop limit enforced on non-ranked games is a little silly. 400 should be the minimum max cap for any AoE game.

AoEV will have limits, sure. But 200? Would be funny

If the developer made the game for everyone individually, there’d be a lot of versions of the game out there.

You probably wouldn’t have liked the original AoE (50 unit cap), or the original AoE II or AoM, then. Nothing wrong with not liking them of course, but there are priorities that franchise fans have been wanting for years, so.

This has nothing to do with me talking about any technical limits that other posters are attributing to the game engine and / or developers. Your preference is completely separate to that, and I already said that “I get folks wanting to play with higher pop caps”.

Also, I disagree on the 400 thing. Population cap affects balance, it isn’t picked out of thin air. There’s no harm in players having options in custom games, of course. But by default? No thanks.

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That’s a bit of a stretch, to pretend the computing power, gaming experience, game-playing expertise, monitor size, player age, developer expectations, and life situations of someone playing 25 years ago is the same as today. I would have been just fine playing 50 pop cap, thank you.

Games have evolved and many more have come out since 2000. What was new, enjoyable, and avante garde in 2000 is not quite the same today, as if it needs to be pointed out?

And that’s why I said ranked is fine at 200 pop cap. Take the training wheels off for our non-ranked games, is all I say. Some people can manage their gaming experience on their own. Don’t need devs putting a hard cap in because they, or eSporters, hardcore strategists, history professors, and nostalgists, don’t like their game when the population hits 201 or 400.

I never said ‘by default’… although that would be awesome. Just in the base game with no need to mod it in is great. Trying to play AoE4 with the default 200 is a little sad. You hit it midway thru every game :sweat_smile:

I’ve never had an issue with the 200 pop cap across any Age game. In fact, I think 200 is perfect.

I haven’t tried this mode, but for those who have, doesn’t it feel like a missed opportunity that walls are disabled, especially since having units on them is one of the unique features in IV? This mode could have been perfect for showing off how cool that is. I’m also not sure why there’s no co-op, as I can easily imagine people having a great time playing it with friends. It really seems perfect for that.

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I think people keep forgetting that the 200 pop limit doesn’t exist due to technical limitations but first and foremost due to the intended balance, not only in ranked.

OG AoE 1 and 2 were balanced around 50 and 75 pop respectively. One ‘living witness’ of that old balance is the Goths’ +10 pop bonus in Imperial Age which is way more impactful on lower pop games than on 200 (or more), which is why you can often read people suggesting to eventually change that bonus to a percentace-based value.

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