What do you think should be the focus of the next dlc for AoE2?

Europe / Africa & World

Look at 1500 ad, Europe is almost 25%, Africa is a little more than 10%, if you don’t want to do the math yourself, you have the estimates that say Europe is 2x the population of Africa at that date.

Not to mention that Europe was more dynamic and had better technology and tactis by the end of the medieval timeline while some africans armies had less advance weapons and armors the further they were from the mediterranean.

As I said, I’m not against an african dlc, but the focus should be on Asia.

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The best dlc would be fixing bugs please

By the way and I know it’s really early but does anyone know when Romans will be release in Ranked?

Oh, yeah, let’s paywall bugfixes, what an excellent idea.

No its 90 million/438 million which is ~20.5%.

I’d like to say though, I completely agree with you that Asia should be the major focus. Indeed I very strongly assert that a considerably greater weight of prioritisation should be given to Asia than Africa. I only disagree on some things.

Firstly, the population figures I was putting forward weren’t quoted directly from any single source. I calculated those figures early last year by averaging out the numbers from a large array of estimates (I also linked a few online sources in my early comment). The estimate you linked from Wikipedia for example is from the University of Groningen, but that’s just one estimate. You have to average out a large array to get accurate figures.

I’ve calculated averages before and came to 15% for Europe and 12% for Africa in 1000 CE and 18% for Europe and 11% for Africa in 1500 CE for example. I think those are also around the number I came to for the whole period average, however I only now have the figures for 1000 CE and 1500 CE so I can’t be sure. I’ll just say that I think sensible numbers for the whole period on average would be maybe 15 to 20% for Europe and ~11% for Africa, so that is a bit off from what I stated earlier which is my bad. That’s just a rough average based on the average estimates for 1000 CE + 1500 CE though so take it with a pinch of salt. It also doesn’t mean that Europe didn’t have higher percentage populations at certain points, just that at others it had less than the whole period’s average (eg: soon after Black Death, or more localised events like the early 14th century crisis in England) I’d just say that I think your focus on

is flawed because the game is set throughout the whole period c.400-c.1600 CE, so only an average over that whole period is relevant. The best thing to do if you’re interested would be to compile averages from a wide array of sources for all the centuries/half centuries from c.400 - c.1600 CE and then average these out to create a whole-period average.

If you’re interested, these are the full average figures I came to for 1000 CE and 1500 CE, when I looked into this early last year.

These figures are pre-Dynasties of India btw, so the civ count % numbers would be different now, and it also depends on how you classify a civ (eg: are Byzantines regionally Middle Eastern or European?)

Regardless, though Europe is clearly overepresented by a lot whilst Africa is underepresented.

Of course Asia is even more underepresented (by a huge amount!), so I completely agree with you that the primary focus should be on Asia, especially due to it being incredibly underepresented but also because the military history is interesting and would make for unique gameplay.

As a historian with a particular interest in African medieval history though, I believe the same is true for Africa.

In my opinion, the military systems, tactics, weapons etc… of medieval African military systems were incredibly interesting and diverse, (as were those in Asia and Europe). I must say that a number of powerful military empires of medieval Africa are currently not in the game and I would love to have them added in the future. But I’m sure we’d agree on that by the sounds of it and also agree that a greater weight of prioritisation should be given to Asia than to Africa.

All I would disagree with you on is that Europe in the medieval period was likely not so vastly more populated than Africa as you state (though it was more populated), and also I must assert that warfare across the regions of Africa was highly developed in many ways, being very unique, interesting and “dynamic”.

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That’s ridiculous, we always need more civs

When did they say that? Do you have a screenshot?

It’s further up the conversation somewhere, I believe. It should be there.

I’d really like a Japan focused DLC. It’d be great to get a Japanese campaign at last, Japanese assets for the scenario editor like Torii gates, cherry trees, fox statues, etc., and maybe some more civs like Ainu and Ryukyu.

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It’s kind of funny seeing this almost immediately after a detailed discussion of medieval populations. Ainu and Ryukyuan populations must have been tiny!

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Remember that Japan’s Feudal era lasted long after Feudalism ended in Europe.
You could comfortably have a campaign in the Aoe 3 era and it’d still work.
Heck the Aoe 1 Japanese Campaign ended around 700 AD.

And by the 17th century, Ryukyu and the Ainu definitely had the needed population.

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I should have been clearer that it wasn’t meant as a criticism – I actually voted for Japan in the poll! Just an observation.

True, although I think the latest it could feasibly go is the Siege of Osaka, so 1615. Not so many battles after that. The tricky thing with a Japanese campaign is making interesting scenarios involving just Japanese. Even with Ainu and Ryukyuan civs, most possible campaigns would primarily involve Japanese. You might just about manage to get some Portuguese or Dutch (presumably represented by Burgundians) in there.

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I just remembered that there were some of these in an alpha version of AoK, but they didn’t make it to release:

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Ooh those are good! They should be added to the modern game!

Yes, until they reach 48 civs we won’t know…

Europeans for speaking Greek and having a European culture, the territories of the Middle East would be represented by the Saracens…

That’s true…

For me it’s not like that… you have represented Central Asia, the Far East, and South and Southeast Asia (the north of the Himalayas aka Tibet, Nepal and Bhutan would be missing)…

Yes, you are missing all of southern and eastern Africa (Kongo, Zimbabwe and Swahili)…

Because it connects with Kyoto and Noryang Point and also because you needed a Japanese campaign yes or yes…

Because it is the Yamato period (250-750 CE) that led the Yamato clan to dominate all of Japan and part of Korea…

Yes, the siege of Osaka ended with the unification of Japan and there weren’t many more wars until the Boshin Wars in 1868…

Very late…it would have to be a campaign in the Sengoku period between 1543 (the arrival of the Portuguese in Tan3gashima and 1592 (the start of the Imjin wars aka Noryang Point)…perhaps a campaign by N0bunaga (1560-1575)…

  1. Okehazama (1560)

  2. Oda N0bunaga marches towards Kyoto (1568)

  3. Anegawa (1570)

  4. The Rokkaku clan and Kōka ikki surrender to Oda N0bunaga (1571)

  5. Nagashino (1575)

That’s a very 21st Century vision. Other than Constantinople, the core of the Byzantine Empire and Greek culture was Asia Minor posibly since Alexander the Great. Even in WW1 Smyrna still had more Greeks than Athens.
I’m not saying I count them as Asians, but I don’t really think they are only European either. Rather, they were equally European and Asian.

Central Asia is not really that well represented either.

And although South Asia has been improved dramatically in DoI, the four civs are still very broad umbrellas.

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I think the next DLC will be a pathing DLC

Cool campaign material:

UU for Ryukyu, three-barrel gun:

Wonder:

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Yes, that is true, it would be half the two… culturally European and territorially Asian… it is similar to what happens with Armenia, it is the last border of Europe before crossing into Asia (Persia and Azerbaijan)…

Well, you have the Cumans (Ukraine and South Russia), the Tatars that cover all the countries that end in “-tan” (except Bhutan) and the Mongols that cover all of the above…for me it is more or less represented (obviously Tibet and the Uyghurs would be missing, but you know how China is with that subject)…

Well, but we are not going to create 10 Indian civs for every people in India either… we already know that it is a very rich subcontinent… but you already have the Hindustanis (who cover the northwest and the center of the subcontinent), the Gurjaras (who cover the southwest), the Dravidians (covering the southeast) and the Bengalis covering the east including the mouth of the Ganges to the border with the Burmese…

A bit late, a Sho Shin campaign would be better…

Ryukyu’s golden age occurred during the reign of Shō Shin, the second king of that dynasty, who reigned from 1478 to 1526.

The reign of Shō Shin also saw the expansion of the kingdom’s control over several of the outlying Ryukyu Islands. Okinawan ships began in the late 15th century to frequent Miyakojima and the Yaeyama Islands; following a series of disputes among the local lords in the Yaeyama Islands which broke out in 1486, Shō Shin in 1500 sent military forces to quell the disputes and establish control over the islands. K0m3j1ma was brought under firm control of Shuri, and liaison offices were established in Miyako and Yaeyama, in 1500 and 1524 respectively.

Shō Shin also effected significant changes to the organization of the native noro (巫女, village priestesses) cult and its relationship to the government (the Ryukyuans could have villagers become monks for 100 gold similar to Norse villagers becoming ulfsarks in AoM or monks who collect gold like Abun from Ethiopians in AoE 3)… He owed his uncle’s abdication, and his own succession to his sister, the noro of the royal family, a special position known as the kikoe-ōgimi. He established a new residence for the kikoe-ōgimi (聞得大君) just outside the gates to the castle, and erected high walls in 1519 around the Sonohyan Utaki, the sacred space and accompanying sacred hearth which she tended. A system by which the king and kikoe-ōgimi appointed local noro across the kingdom was established, tying this element of the native Ryukyuan religion into formal systems of authority under the government.[10]

After a fifty-year reign, Shō Shin died in 1526, and was succeeded by his son Shō Sei. It is said that after such a long reign, officials encountered difficulties in determining the proper way to conduct the royal funeral, succession rituals, and other important related ceremonies.[11] Historian George Kerr writes that "Okinawa was never again to know the halcyon days of Sho Shin’s reign.

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Culturally European, mostly because they are Christians, which is an Asian religion ironically.
The Caucasus has always been considered Asia until the 19th Century. And the Greeks, well,the considerd themselves #### Europeans and Asians, they created these words after all.

Yeah, I agree Cumans can cover many Turkic peoples (mainly Kipchaks) from the Pontic Steppe and Central Asia and the Tatars cover Chagatai Turkic peoples, especially those who converted to Islam.
However, there are still other important peoples not covered, like all the Iranian (but very different from the Persians) peoples that dominated the area. First, we have the Sogdians, which were one of thr key players of the Silk Road, and would be a mercantile civ. Since they are also the ancestors of Tajiks, one could argue they could cover later empires like the Ghurids (although I’m not sure a trade focus civ could represent them) .
And of course, we have the Alans, the Last Scythians, which participated in the Barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire and ehose Caucasian kingdom lasted until the Mongols

It isn’t just geography, judging by the History section, leader name and other civ features, it seems the Hindustanis cover the Islamic dynasties of India in general, the Gurjaras the Rajput kingdoms and the Dravidians cover the empires ruled by Dravidian peoples (who lived in the South)

Yeah, that won’t happen. But not because of what you said, but because this is a game with a Western audience.
If this game had been made for an Asian audience, we would have 20 Indian civs and Europe would just be covered by 4 umbrella civs, most likely Franks, Byzantines, Slavs and Vikings.

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