I think everyone would agree that the Bulgarians need an early eco bonus, as the 50 stone TCs only help from Castle Age onward.
Starting with 2 pigs would give Bulgarians free food from the start, delaying their farms and keeping things running smoothly, and would be a fun and flavorful reference to Ivaylo starting life as a pig farmer.
One Pig. Since it would be too much like the Incas then. That way, if have an Inca ally, they will get a Llama as well, giving them two livestock.
Basically double of Incas bonus. Not a fan. Not to mention their awkwardness is from Castle Age, not at the start of the game. In fact they are very strong in Feudal.
My proposal - CA can be trained in Stable.
As Bulgarians, you don’t want to invest into Archery Range in the long run. However, you do need either CA or scorpion for your pierce damage unit. Since scorpion is too slow for your main cavalry army, CA is a natural choice. With the blacksmith discount combined, they will be one of the easiest civ to transition to CA.
I think it is nice to have some civs without eco bonus, who are forced to be aggressive to make use of their bonuses (and not fall behind).
So I would rather buff their Blacksmith bonuses. Like every blacksmith tech giving back 25 food, and blacksmith techs being 300% faster instead of 80%. It shouldnt be a big deal if they are oppressive in Feudal with the tech switches because it is the core design of the civ for me.
I 2nd this. Bulgarians is perfect for that. And if you (OP) still insist on sheep bonus, bring back lost Tatar civ bonus - TC spawns 2 sheep upon age up. That will be more genuine than double Inca Team Bonus.
Sure, that could work, as long as it’s pigs and not sheep. The livestock being pigs is important for the theme.
Problem is civ without a eco bonus this days are slow, and most of the time cannot go on the aggressioni because the opponent either gets up faster and/or has better eco when gets up
For instance, bulgarians might be good for empire wars, because it skips dark age, but in a normale game, they can’t capitalize on their aggressiveness simply because most civs get to feudal faster or have more res when they do, and MAA are really not that scary
This is not to say they strictly need a eco bonus (even tough all civs should have it imho these days to be relevant, asyde from bizantines which are different cause they have crazy defensive bonuses, but were never really “strong”/S-tier infact) but they do need a way to use their aggressive bonuses that bypass the fact that they won’t have the initiative unless the opponent gives it to them.
Maybe make them start with a barrack already, that way empire wars is not even impacted since they are already good in that setting
I have no idea with the theme that you are talking about. Variety in animals is better imo. So I have no problem with that.
Incas = Lama
Tatars = Sheep
Potential Bulgarians = Pig
True. But Magyars do have some pick in aggressive maps even in regular 3 villagers settings. In fact, they totally replaced Bulgarians nowadays as both can do the similar early aggression while Magyars can have long term options and that reflects on the stat as well.
Well, cheaper Imperial is definitely more fitting to eco bonus than Magyars free melee attack upgrades.
Why everyone is obsessed with buffing their early game and silent on the real issue which is early to mid castle age time period?
Ivaylo being a pig farmer. That’s the theme.
Agreed. That’s also why, for my recent Bedouins civ concept, I had their Mills generate goats instead of sheep. Both were raised by them, but goats aren’t used by other civ bonuses.
Honestly i think a civ should have a clear window of strenght and other windows of weakness. Bulgarians are supposed to be strong early, so the change i proposed is targeted to that matter, since starting with a barrack would make them able to truly capitalize on their infantry bonus even if they are slow/less rich on the uptime, without impacting other phases of the game where they should not feel strong
Fair point. But this will make them way too predictable and they are probably the most predictable civ on pro level already. And there is also a big chance that this will be OP.
On the predictability part, i do not agree. Magyars are predictable on paper, but they are not forced to go scouts and can catch the opponent off guard.
Same with bulgarians here that could use this bonus to save 175 wood and build a stable and going Scout instead of MAA
Also sometines a civ is so good in that niche, that even when expected can be dangerous, like the aforementioned magyars
On the OP part, i admit i have no idea but i really do not think that a civ can go from worst in the game to OP in just a single barrack…but would be a start to make the civ better and can be nerfed later on, maybe making first barrack build instantly but requiring res, or be free of cost but requires to be built, etc
Yeah, you’re right. Magyars is probably the most predictable. But it actually works unlike Bulgarians.
Does Georgians ring a bell? They went from #45 to #1 with 50 food buff. And now we’re talking about 175 wood + 100 wood buff at the start. (You can skip one building to go up)
Someone puts it very well somewhere. Bulgarians are a wrong buff away from being OP. I wouldn’t buff their dark age which always have the biggest impact.
Someone remember the time Bulgarians were the most feared Civ with their MAA opener?
I pretty much prefer something done with that line tbh.
Like buffing Militia line?
It feels refreshing to see someone make a suggestion for both balance and historical/thematic reasons, rather than just one or the other. But it got me wondering: are there any bonuses in-game already that are references to a specific person? I can’t think of any.
(Of course, I don’t know the historical basis for every bonus, and it feels like a lot of bonuses don’t have one.)
IIRC the Magyar wolf bonus is a reference to MiklĂłs Toldi, who is said to have killed wolves with his bare hands.
Does “Flaming Camel” count? Was it a common strategy or just Tamerlane?
I think that was just a Tamerlane thing.