What makes Age of Empires 2 very new player unfriendly (too high starting elo, huge moderate and hard difficulty gap, no multiple difficulties in the same game)

Games can be either user-friendly or very user-unfriendly, depending on mechanics.

But Age of Empires 2 is in a weird spot, it is very unfriendly to new user but not because of mechanics as is the norms, but because of the butterfly effect. There are 3 small butterflies that create a hurricane.

I believe there are a few simple tweaks that will make Age of Empires 2 significantly more user-friendly. And allow Microsoft to get more sales. And increase the community.

  1. The starting elo is too high → lower to 600 & more generous upper calibration.
  2. There is no difficulty between Moderate and Hard → Add “Advanced”.
  3. You can’t pick multiple difficulties for different AI in the same game.

Let me start with the elo.


This is the chess elo distribution. The average elo is around 1500.

What is the starting elo? 1000

In your first FIDE-rated tournament, you will start with an initial rating of 1000.

You start your calibration games from 1000.

There is also chess.com who is more generous than the world federation and your starting elo is 1200.

Obviously, you are far from the median when you just start playing chess.

According to chess pros from Google, roughly:
750< Elo you probably play a kid.
750-1000 Elo is considered beginner level.
1000-1200 Elo is considered “better than novice, fresh in the chess world” player.
1200-1300 Elo is considered “I’m starting to take chess seriously” level.
1300-1500 Elo is considered intermediate level.
1500-1600 Elo is considered good player level.
1600-2000 Elo is considered club player level.
2000+ are the pros.

Let’s look at Age of Empires 2 now:


This is the elo distribution. The average elo is around 1000.

What is the starting elo? also 1000.

At this point, the point should already be made and I should go talk about the huge gap between Moderate and Hard difficulties. But let’s keep going.

Unlike chess, where you are far from the median when you just start playing chess, in Age of Empires 2 the game considers a new player what chess would consider an intermediate to good player. Even if that person may not know what a build order is.

Does that seem fair to new players? no, it does not.

It’s like asking someone who never picked up a spear “go kill a tiger, some people kill elephants, some people kill mice, but you’re average” when they don’t even know what the pointy stick is.

Additionally, according to Age of Empires 2 players, roughly:
1000< Low Elo Legends.

That “low elo” is the equvialent of 1500 elo in chess, right between intermediate and good player.

Leading to a scenario where only tryhards stick to the ladder as the beginners simply don’t have a good experience. Good luck telling someone “oh, you need to lose 300 games to get to your real elo”.

A lot of players are saying elo 1000 is too high, but what would be the proper number? My answer is 600 elo & more generous upper calibration.

The more generous upper calibration means that say you lose (x2) for losing but win (x4) for winning depending on the opponents’ elo. Say in a game where you normally would -5 elo, +5 elo whether you win or lose, in your callibration games -10 elo for lose and +20 elo for win. Thus if a pro player joins, he will get from 600 elo to 1000 elo in those 10 games.

This will also actually move the average elo up.

Speaking of average elo. Some people would say “In time the average elo will move to 600 and nothing will be solved”. Let’s ignore the generous upper calibration and do the math.

Let’s say we make 600 the starting elo. The average will go down, but very slowly. There are 40.000 ranked players currently in AoE2. After the new elo is 600, it will take another 40.000 new players to lower the starting elo by half the difference, so 800 elo.

You will need double the playerbase as new players to lower the average elo by half. And that’s not even including the upper calibration.

It will take another 40.000 players to lower the average elo to 700.

So if Age of Empires 2 has 40.000 players, starting elo 600, average elo 1000. It would need:
80.000 players, starting elo 600, average elo 800.
120.000 players, starting elo 600, average elo 700.

I would love to see the day when Age of Empires 2 will have such an issue, too many new players, but I don’t think it will happen, right now we have the opposite issue, because the ladder simply isn’t fun for beginners.

Issue no.2 - There is no Advanced difficulty between Moderate and Hard.
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To put it simple: Easy difficulty does literally nothing, Moderate difficulty does almost nothing, Hard is too good for a new player with a good build order and attacking you since feudal.

Once again, do I need to say more?

How can you have a fun game vs AI as a beginner when you play Moderate and he does nothing or you play Hard and he beats you when you have 10 villagers?

In my opinion Advanced should be a “Late game hard”. A difficulty that is very good at defending itself, develops as fast as hard, but attacks as weak as moderate. The only “big attack” would come in the imperial age.

To give the beginner time to develop, but also a challenge if it tries to destroy the AI.

Advanced difficulty should be:
Advances through the ages: At the speed of Moderate difficulty.
Attacks First: Rarely, like the Moderate difficulty.
Builds a Castle: Yes, like both Moderate and Hard. Fast like Hard.
Builds a Wonder: Yes, like both Moderate and Hard. Fast like Hard.

And no.3 - can’t pick multiple difficulties for different AI in the same game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/s27uzg/multiple_ai_difficulties/
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/n10hdr/why_did_they_get_rid_of_mixed_difficulty_ai/
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/14aky7c/ai_with_different_difficulty_levels_in_same_game/

If you want some AI players to be good, but some AI players to be bad, you simply don’t have this option, which lowers its user-friendlyness.

Of course, some people would rather want the devs to focus on the competitive aspects of Age of Empires 2, after all what happens to the beginners has no bearing on them, but it does, having a smaller or larger community does have a bearing on them.

Others would say “whoever can’t pass 1000 low elo legend” is not worth of being an Age of Empires 2 player. To which, notice again the contrast between chess where you start at 1000 and the average is 1500, the 1500 being considered between intermediary and good player, and Age of Empires 2 where the starting elo is 1000 and the average elo is 1000. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Those 1000 elo or 900 elo players, the TRUE 1000 or 900 elo players I mean, are now in fact low elo legends, they are way above a large amount of players. The fact that I have to use the word “TRUE 1000 or 900 elo players” and you understand what I mean shows how broken the system is.

There is no such thing as “TRUE 1500 or 1400 elo players” in chess. Because every 1500 or 1400 elo player is a 1500 or 1400 elo player because the system works. In this way, saying “TRUE 1000 or 900 elo players” is a statement that the system doesn’t work.

It’s not the beginner’s fault that he was placed in 1500 or 1400 elo when he is really a 1000 elo in chess. It’s not the beginner’s fault that he was placed in 1000 or 900 elo when he is really a 600 elo in Age of Empires 2.

You don’t need to be an elitist or be like “Imma go pro bro, be the next Hera” (to which, yes, be the next Hera please, he’s a really amazing person), when all of us are here at the end of the day to just enjoy the game. Including low players and high players. And there’s no reason why low skill players shouldn’t have an enjoyable experience because “get good bro!”.

At the end of the day, it’s a game, do whatever you want, play as you see fit, relax.

That’s what it is, that’s what it was always meant to be.

Do it for the game, because you like that game, and that’s about it.

Everyone should be able to play how and as long as they see fit, as long as at the end of the day, you remember, it’s just a game.

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Technically, that’s what the extreme AI already does. It makes massive assaults in imperial age (however, it is absolutely powerless against forward castles).

Is it just me that find a bit weird that the average player (1000 Elo) seems to know how a perfect build order and strategy is supposed to work and is just at that Elo because he sucks at the execution? Maybe the problem is more cultural: most players who delve into ranked have knowledge of resources that teach how to play and that creates an unseen barrier to those who don’t.

Doesn’t the Elo rating have by definition an average of 1000? I think what you mean is that the game should use another rating system.

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Imo its also just a needlessly complicated dark age too. There is so much going on in just the first age, and you aren’t really playing against an opponent, you’re just playing against yourself.
You have to

  1. At the start, build two houses INSTANTLY, or you’re housed. You’ve to do it specifically as well. While doing that, you’ve to also queue vills, and start moving your scout and search for sheep. Thats 3 whole seperate processes you’re supposed to do, in the first 10 seconds of the game. All because houses give too less pop space and TC gives too less pop space
  2. You need to actually have an exact number of vills on sheep and then know how much to have on wood, since the game doesn’t show how much re you get per min, its something you have to look up online. If you pick up a new game, you’re not going to be as inclined to play it if most of the game is taught elsewhere rather than playing the game itself
  3. Again, since the houses provide too less pop space, you need to build MORE in dark age, all while trying to lure a boar that can kill you, for vills too weak to sustain hits from it. And losing a vill in dark age is the worst, so its so micro intensive for just gathering a basic resource.
  4. Since vills carry more meat from hunt and gather faster, you constantly need to babysit your vills and drop off food, all while scouting, and keeping the TC running, while trying to remember the build order, while trying to get a second boar. Its a HUGE APM sink for newer players, and its not fun to do after a point. It never gets fun and is just tedious after a point. Dark age should be much more simpler.
  5. Finally for age up, there’s no indication that you can age up, apart from checking how much food you have, and seeing the TC age up button. Also the pre requisite building requirement is so arbitrary. Why do I need a barracks for building archery range or stabe? Why do I need a mill for a market? Why do I need a blacksmith for a siege workshop? By that logic, why DON’T I need a building for a university of monastery? Like, why can’t I just build what I want to? It seems like its a design from 20 years ago that hasn’t changed and doesn’t fit any longer
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Maybe this can just be put together in:

The ranked game speed is too high for beginners who just try to learn a game.
I feel like it would help to make a “noob ladder” with 1x game Speed and a “beginner ladder” with 1.3 or 1.5 speed, so they don’t get immediately overwhealmed by the sheer amount of stuff to do,

I have also more and more the feeling that the game speed we use in ranked is actually only really suitable for pros - which leads to the phenomenom that the best way to “climb” is just training basic execution over and over. And the result is a whole bunch of “meta slaves” in the ladder who make nothing else but the “hamstering”.
And it’s no wonder as the current no1 player in the world dominates everything with his sheer executional skills. Ofc Hera is also a very experienced player who can play different styles and adapt to a lot of opponent strats. But the point is: If the sheer executional skills are so apearantly allow for a visible “skill gap” at the pro level - it’s very clear that this will be the case even more on the ladder. And the speed of the game is a huge catalyst for this.

I remember when DE came out the “mid elo” had a high variety of different strats that were attempted. And if i know see the reports and coverage of this range. They all basically try the same stuff - the executional meta. And as this has such a good learning curve for me it’s no surprise that new player will get completley overwhealmed by this.
And for me it looks like the pace of the game is just too high there to get other, not so far explored, paths going. At that level you can’t really explore new strats when you have to defend against the meta rushes at the same time. Not with the current pace of the game. It’s just too much.

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While these are some drawbacks, I’d say the major issue with being unfriendly for new players is the lack of an advanced tutorial helping players learn the purpose of the game, different ages, units, techs, build orders and their purpose. We have external resources like aoebuilds.com, sotl guide to first 15 vills, units, stances and formation explanation videos from Hera and so on but they need to be integrated within the game. The Art of war should have a lot more tutorials. And as you pointed 1k is too high starting elo at the moment, should be something like 400 for those who are new and haven’t done any Art of war (assuming it gets upgraded to all kinds of build orders, defending and attacking lessons), 500 for those who got a bronze, 600 for silver and maybe 800 for gold. This way those who return to aoe 2 or come from voobly can do Art of war and start at a relatively higher elo or just choose to play more games while very new players don’t have to lose several games before they start winning.

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What about Empire Wars?

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I mean yes, but I find it weird that this level (1000 elo) is the one supposedly for new players. New players aren’t going to know a BO, they should hardly know about the units. It’s not like 1000 elo players are clueless when it comes to execution, they just either aren’t as fast or don’t make the right decision regarding things unrelated to BO. This is not beginner level.

Elo rating by definition doesn’t have an average of 1000. It has in AoE2 which is also the starting elo, but this is the AoE2 issue not the elo issue.

@sidg62 and @casusincorrabil valid points regarding dark age and speed, AoE2 is more complicated in this regard, but one could argue this is part of the game mechanics. The poor implementation of elo for ranked and lack of an AI between Moderate (too easy for new players) and Advanced (too hard for new players) is not gameplay related. What I mean to say is these issues can be fixed without touching the gameplay.

@Pulikesi25 for every ranked game I played, chess.com included, I looked online for guides, while a more in-depth tutorial in the game would be indeed a nice to have, I would argue the issue of the ranked ladder is that is too unbalanced rather that 2 players aren’t skilled enough. If you put 2 unskilled players together both of them are going to have a great time, it doesn’t matter that 1500 elos are going to look at them and say “what a noob game”.

Regarding the starting elo, it’s a very good idea, I think the wave of AoE2 veterans has already passed, new players in AoE2:DE are going to be just that… new players. Putting them at 1000 elo is just suicide.

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Imagine starting chess at elo 1500, which is considered intermediate to good player level, I think 90% of players would quit. This is what is currently happening in Age of Empires 2.

Current AoE2 new player experience be like:

Or, if the developers want to keep the starting elo 1000, they could simply give everyone +200 elo in a rebalance (not the first time they would do it), moving the average from 1000 to 1200 and then see the results. This way, every new player who didn’t play rank in their life will still start at 1000 but the new average will be 1200.

Hera’s current elo is 2700, which would raise it to 2900.

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That’s there but it could still be demotivating if between 2 very new players, one of them knows a little about the game because they’ve played something similar or watched pros play while the other has no clue about the units and builds. Its more complex than chess, a lot more entities to learn about. I definitely think slightly more detailed art of war or tutorial links would be helpful.

Of course yes.

Honestly, this isn’t even the hardest part. Just getting past 1000 elo is tough. I got close once, but then I started losing rounds again. One issue is forgetting about all of the things that you can make (for example, monasteries and outposts).

Think of it as immersive learning.