What other Asian civilizations do we need?

Then you just add the Khitans, Tanguts and Jurchens. Like with every other civ.

Sure, maybe…I would like instead a Chinese rework with give them the Fire Lancer as second UU and Chemistry free bonus like the Turks…

Sure, the Rise of Joseon Dynasty would be great…

Maybe with a Balkan dlc with Serbs, Croats and Vlacs…

Yes, the Viking quests are annoying as hell… I hate the Jarl riots in Ragnar and I can’t defeat them with any option… Vortigern is easy but only if you don’t recruit the Saxons under any circumstances; make MAA and Cavaliers instead (the Cavaliers will eat the Woad Raiders and Nordic Swordmans with potatoes)…put Scorpions in the wonder and that’s it…

Yeah, aside the political issue about Tibetans or Tanguts, this is the most easy option about that…

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That is how I’d describe it. That’s what I think is most accurate to say. Not sure tho it’d be intuitive to everyone. But yes I agree.

I dont think we need 15 more than 8 is enough for gameplay as we only have that much slots.Also wonder an be any made up building or something built by sweden heck the slavic wonder is not even medieval and sits on the finnish side even that could be the wonder.UU can be anything generic as now we have composit bowmen as uus call the uu lap hunter or fin axeman.

Campaign could be something like resisting the Swedish crusade similar to cuman campaign.

I am Lao. Honestly I would rather have a Tai civilization as an umbrella so it can cover Sipsongpanna, Lan Xang, Ayutthaya, Sukhothai and Lanna. But if it were to be Thai, I’d have no qualms about it.

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Thank you for your insightful reply. I’ll be honest, it wasn’t until your response I realized there was any difference between “Tai” and “Thai”. This has really cleared up a lot of things for me. Thx.

Thai is pronounced like Tie and Tai is pronounced like thigh. Both mean a Kra-Dai speaking person, free and human. Anyways I’m actually Tai Lue and Tai Yuan (Northern Thai) but family comes from Laos. I say Lao because it is easier sometimes.

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Well, that could be it…the issue would be more about finding the AIs (Wikipedia does not have much information on Finnish kings who are not Swedish)…

The wonder would be the Turku Castle or the Turku Catedral (built at the end of the 13th century)…

The campaign would be that of the peasant Lalli (Nordic Swordman hero), who killed the English bishop Henry of Uppsala (1100-1156) (renamed Pope Leo perhaps?) at Lake Köyliö during the First Swedish Crusade of the Swedish king Eric IX (1153- 1156) (it would be contemporary with the campaigns of Barbarossa and Thoros II)…The UU could be the Nordic Swordman (if they don’t give it to the Swedes or is a regional unit) or archers on sleds, although they couldn’t be created on forest or jungle maps, only snowy and desert maps?

And the civ shield would refer to the campaign…

Yes, let’s say that the Thai (with h) and the Lao are subgroups of the Tai (like the Lakotas are a subgroup of the Sioux)… in any case, they should include the Tai and then we see if they include another separate civ…

I think that it is quite enough to represent the Finno-Ugric peoples (not only the Finns) to add the Swedes civ to the game, who created their empire covering the lands of the Sámi, Finns, Karelians and Estonians - all of these territories were under their rule before the end of the 16th century. Before Swedish rule, these peoples were tribes without permanent statehood. They were conquered by the Swedes as part of the Swedish Crusades. Finland, for example, was under Swedish rule from 1150 until 1809. The coat of arms of Finland was given to it while it was under Swedish rule.

The Swedish civ could have the Finno-Ugric Warrior as their Unique Unit. Moreover, these Finno-Ugric peoples could be depicted in the campaign of Gustavus Adolf Vasa and his sons. Additionally, I believe that breaking the umbrella Vikings civ would bring not only a completely new Swedes civ (late medieval-renaissance civ including Finno-Ugric warriors), but also a Danes civ (based on the reign of Canute the Great - access to the Huskarl unit, which would become a Regional Unit), and the Vikings civ would be renamed to the Norwegians civ (such as the current Vikings civ - based on the periods of Viking raids). Then a completely new Northern European Architecture Set should be added (for Norwegians, Danes, Goths and Swedes civs).

And now let’s get back to the topic because we went off topic.

The Huns and Cumans were absolutely notable. You dont need a wonder to be notable and the Cumans were always a huge factor in eastern european politics and represent right now all the western Turks. WAY more notable than the Finns, who are so poorly recorded that even finding 8 players is hard. The Finns have way way too little to work with.

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Of course, of course, it seems good to me, lastly medieval Sweden from Eric VII in 970 to John III (father of Sigismund Vasa) in 1592…

Isn’t Gustav Eriksson Vasa?..Gustav Adolphus Vasa is the one from AoE 3…

I agree…

Yes, it’s quite a topic…

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the thing is that the Fins are a very peaceful people, and there was not much war going on in there 1000 year history, except some small fights in WW1 and WW2, which are of course beyond AOE time scale.

AoE is about war, so this is the problem of the a Fin civ

As per wiki they raided Scandinavian lands so I doubt calling them peaceful is 100% correct.You dont need to be super aggressive to become an ingame civi look at celts or koreans they didnt go attacking other people or trying to expand.

Ironically if you are outside Europe you will be called “Primitive” instead of “Peaceful” for being like this.

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True, perhaps when the Finns were most bellicose, it was during the Swedish crusades in the 12th century…then they were conquered by Sweden and were part of it until the Napoleonic Wars…

Well, the Celts attacked Rome in 390 BC… and then you have several wars between 155 and 101 BC, Caesar’s Gallic wars in 52 BC, the Boadicean war in 61 AD and then the invasions of Roman Britain in the 5th century…and obviously you have the invasions of Wales and Ireland by England in the 12th century…

Aoe time frame.

Medieval age they were defensive for the most part.

Yes, but because they were stuck in Ireland and Scotland… and even then, the Celts feel anachronistic in AoE 2, they would have to rename them Gaels and give them the Gallowglass instead (the Woad Rider hasn’t been used since 500 BC)…and a Macbeth scenario to play with the Gaels…

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I’ve said it multiple times and I’ll say it again: They shouldn’t have made a civ representing both Gauls and Scottish+Irish.

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I think its fine, few umbrelkas are perfect but mamy pf them group peoples which in their own would have been a bit too specific on their own.

And I feel like any non Gael civ would be fairly niche (except maaaybe the Bretons) and putting the two Gael bations togheter makes sense when for mosg of the timelines they spoke the same language

Like, imo the Maya should be split before the Celts. The Celts just arent that important in Europe imo