What should Age of Empires IV improve?

Also the huge accumulation of resources causes tedious games like this

For a long time, like when we saw the longest game in a tournament, lasting 3 hours


https://acortar.link/wbs4m3

In the same tournament there was also another game of more than 1 hour of Marienlord, in all these examples the enormous accumulation of resources can be seen, such as accumulating more than 10 thousand of food, therefore

Proposal: Farms should have a limited amount of food, incorporate automatic reseeding of farms like aoe2

imagen

The player will be forced to buy, on the market, wood at a loss price and therefore the infinite accumulation of gold is also solved.

This is the first thing you have said that I agree with.

I’ve always thought infinite resources to go against the spirit of RTS. These games are about acquiring resources and beating out your opponent strategically with them. Making them infinitely generating effectively renders a lot of the late game to infantry spam–which isn’t strategic at all, and serves only for screenshots and the illusion of grand battle.

I don’t think having infinitely replenishing resources is worth the consequence. It drags games out but also makes it harder to punish players, for although forcing them to make farms is punishing in its own right, a player shouldn’t be able to “set up” their food situation in a way that effectively removes it from the strategic battlefield. The only way for your opponent to mess with it after this fact is by raiding these likely fortified, protected or walled farms which is frankly not worth the risk of losing an army unless it is immediately vulnerable.

Have you noticed? This is partly why farms are not a target in this game. When raiding, we go after villagers and leave the second none are present. The thing is, while villagers can take shelter and run away, farms are suseptible to damage–it just turns out that it is not worth destroying them most of the time. The ironic part here is that it isn’t the villager cost that hurts, but the time to produce them that puts the opponent back. 50 food is nothing, and as such, 75 wood for an infinite food source is absurd.

I understand why it has been designed this way, for one, casual players care less about the whole strategic part of RTS and care more for scenery and the roleplaying part of leading armies. To build a vast army and to defeat your opponent. It also smooths out the gameplay in a way that creates less pitfalls for new players; ran out, or were pushed from deer or berries? Don’t worry, you still have a second shot with infinite food.

IMO, mistakes shouldn’t be eased. A mistake should have consequences, god forbid games don’t last 50 minutes as a result of such a change.

In the same vein, military units should not be able to be produced when pop capped. I understand the purpose for this for villagers (though I’d also like that to apply to them), but the issue with military units specificially, is that you create very little gap time between battle victories which an opponent can take advantage of. If defeating an army simply means another immediately spawns, then it contributes to this mindless gameplay.

1 Like

Since you have brought up the argument of casual players having pushed the devs to introduce infinity farms, but finite ressources are REQUIRED for competitive and strategic play,
what is your elo/rank in 1v1 and team?
I’m Conq1 in 1v1 and my highest in 2v2 so far was just under conq3 and I LOVE the farms how they are.
Hell, I’d even prefer them as they are in aoe3de (mills) and honestly I’d love auto-queue for units and villagers or at least batch training for units like it is in aoe3de.

Having played some AoM lately, I noticed how AoE 4 took some design choices from it, such as infinite farms as AoM’s farms already work that way or neutral trade as in AoM you can trade with your own TCs.
In fact, wood is the only finite resource in AoM. You can buy more wood at the market but as opposed to AoE 4, market prices don’t reset.

because when they imitated the farms of aom, they forgot the detail that in aoe4 they made the walls only be attacked by siege

I will post some screenshots from the final of the tournament


https://youtu.be/KKR47Qhzf_E?si=tm7-qw7Ztth1co5i

The thing with farms need to be replaced makes it way more difficult to balance the civs. Like English had the advantage of faster gathering, but if they need to replace it, it’s actually a disadvantage as well. Also what about mongols? Need pastures wood as well? Or you need food to feed the sheep’s?

If you can’t shift+click and alt+click resources in the market to sell/buy like 100 / 500 / 1000 resources at a time, then that needs to be added.

Selling food to buy wood or stone currently takes forever and is a mini click-click-click game adventure aimed at causing carpal tunnel syndrome, unless I’m unaware of AoE4’s method.

3 Likes

100% agree.
It worked in aoe3 in 2005, idk why not in aoe4 in late 2021.

1 Like

Exactly. It is in AoE2, as well. It is painfully tedious to have to mash the mouse button so many times. I consistently had 40K food, and not much wood or stone and did not enjoy one bit the lack of QoL embedded into the market. In fact, holding shift while selling food actually seemed to make it pause selling

1 Like

Would love to see some more detail on Siege. We don’t get siege crew, siege units explodes into confetti’s, most siege doesn’t even follow the plain (will float if standing on cliff), there are bugs from several patches ago that makes them float when packed up, they don’t leave impact craters.

Is this even the same company? I figured Microsoft picked Relic exactly because of their expertise in immersive things like this. How come AoE4 is so sterile?

2 Likes

Readability. Too much confusione during multiplayer matches. Wait: why pro-players had have so big role during the developlment? This Is the main question.

Graphic ( bad textures) , lack of physics (havoc , this unknown software, lol), plastic weapons, building proportions and more, are the final result of the influence of Streamers and pro-players on Relic.

Developers said It clearly in different interviews.

It’s a worthless to ask for other diplomacy options, a graphic DLC, new animations etc. We’ll see probably two more civilizations and a new campaign. That’s all.

We should see to the next AOE and cross fingers for a different developer and FINALLY a proper next generation Engine.

If you read the Aoe4 reviews most of them said that graphic was dated for a 2021 game.

Look at Age of Mythology Retold: night and day in comparison to AOE4

2 Likes

Link me to a single article where it is said that the pro players had a decisive influence on what you have posted here.

Objective analysis of the graphs are the textures and details, the graphic design is subjective to the eye of the beholder.

By the way, the game has almost 90% of recent positive votes on Steam.

Just because there are things to add doesn’t mean it’s a bad game because it doesn’t grab you by the eye graphically.

2 Likes

It makes one think, aoe4 is a budget-solution


CoH 3 was released in February 2023, nearly a year and a half after AoE IV’s release in late 2021.

The video you’ve provided is for their upcoming as-yet unreleased Onyx Shark update (which was also delayed from it’s originally-scheduled release date so that they could fit more improvements into it).

Nobody knows to what extent Relic are still working on AoE IV, which is a joint endeavour with World’s Edge, considering the repeated rounds of layoffs they suffered under Sega and the subsequent spinning off as a newly-independent studio.

Of note, CoH 3 has also announced the end of console support, citing available resources and resource prioritisation (this was explicitly given as a reason when they broke this news, semi-recently). AoE IV hasn’t (yet).

I think we can all agree that any news would be better than the current lack of public updates, and I personally think giving siege some care and attention would go a long way in AoE IV (even just from an aesthetic POV, nevermind functionally). I’m just explaining the technical differences between the two products (in my opinion).

1 Like

This contradicts itself. As a pro player you normally want readability, not actively work against it.

1 Like

I didn’t say Aoe4 Is a bad game. I said that graphic is not good for a RTS released in 2021 (and many reviews said the same).

There are different interviews to developers (gamestar, for example) where developers said why they choosed “giant weapons” and low textures) and the main reason is readability and stability (for e-sport).

“We whip the camera from a battlefield back to a village, you want to be able to quickly recognize your structures. We try to make that as clear as possible by having unique identification for the rooftops, the banners, logo of the buildings is the same as the logo on the UI HUD. All the units are very identifiable. We exaggerated the weapons, the helmets. The read is stylized for maximum readability from far camera and near camera for the players.
It’s true that the game is going for wide accessibility (no doubt with competition in mind)”

i’ll try to find the german interviews (maybe gamestar, maybe PC games, i don’t remember) where developers said that they received feedbacks from AOE council about arrows (too small and we’re talking about the first gameplay revelation during X019, building proportions, weapons etc).

There also were different posts on reddit by people who were involved into AOE council and they said that there were different feedback from a part of AGE Council about the readability .

https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/mracqw/very_detailed_info_about_the_development_process/

Many members of AOE Council were streamers (Likador, Viper, ZeroEmpires, Mista and others) and do you think that they have not a big role during the development?
Zero Empires is a Relic developer.

AOE of Empires 4 have been developed with E-Sport in mind.


If we are recently seeing all of these polls with different and detailed questions about graphic, style, realism and more, it’s because graphic has been on of the most controversial aspect of the game.

2 Likes

There is no such thing as an Age of Empires with graphical realism (AoMR is not the case), it is simply a matter of Art Style.

What you sent me is that high level players had an influence on readability (something where AoE3 fails a bit) and balance, something we should all agree on. You also sent me something logical from a dev: Gameplay (which is for all players) is above graphics and that should always be the case.

In the Council there are not only professionals, but also creators and volunteers with different sensibilities and that’s as far as I can say.

1 Like

I dunno. As you well said, the latest layoffs don’t let many hopes and personally i would love to see what Tantalus and Forgotten could do on a potential AOE5. They made a great work on AOE2De, AOE3DE and AOMRE.

i didn’t say that. I clearly said that there were many streamers and pro-players. Could you said the opposite? I know some of them and they had a big role into development. Other voices have been not considered enough. There are member of Council who said that AOE4 looked without soul, with bad UI and with a lack of detailed in comparison to the other games of the same franchise. And don’t you think that those people tried to share their opions on this thematic that during the devolpment? Clearly yes, but they have been not listened after all.
But streamers and pro-players yes and this is why we’ve seen the first graphic upgrade (season 5, with mountains and terrains in real 4k) only two years later.

The Sultan Expansion is an answer to the main base of AOE: the casual gamers. And with the last polls developers are talking to them. Less questions about multiplayer and more questions about single player, campaigns, graphic, art style and cinematic. That’s say all.

But don’t waiting for a new siege animations, graphic upgrade for models, new diplomacy and more. That train left the station.

These polls are looking to AOE5

You say that as if nobody plays in AoE4. That the poll we’ve done is for AoE5 is a triple shot from the other side of the court.

Streamers, old volunteers and professionals also disagree with each other like anyone else with an opinion.

The game was released incomplete and that’s a fact, just like it needs to improve the interface and give more SP content and more quality of life, but between that and the graphics it’s another thing (optimise the texture and even give it more fauna etc, but not art style).