Exactly. While it might be a bit of easy comfort to go “well the number of negative reviews isn’t THAT high…” many positive ones are actually negative in their text.
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The free update definitely tempered some reviews that otherwise would have been negative.
But from what the devs say they seem aware there is some negative reaction
Well, I hope they fix things the way most players want them, I’m just doubtful they will.
As a 3K fan (not this 3K DLC fan) actually, here my two cents.
Move on and make Three Kingdoms more accurate and balanced
There includes:
- Civ balance adjustments.
- Fix or replace the gimmicks.
- Remove the inaccuracies.
- New regional units, unique units, and an extra Xianbei civ for multiplayer games.
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Kinda insane that even the audience who they targeted is displeased with the DLC.
Anyway, about the gimmicks though, as I said in the main post, they don’t all need to be removed. I think one, sometimes two gimmicks per civ depending(Consider Poles: Folwark + Obuch) are fine, but when all of your units and bonuses are gimmick it’s going to be confusing. This is especially true when you don’t have knights, the key component for one of the most easy and simple rushes.
So here’s my 2 cents on just for example the Wei:
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Get a villager from eco techs. This can be kept as we’re used to it from Bengalis.
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Now, their quirks don’t really come from bonuses but from their techs and units.
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Tiger cavalry getting more stats from kills
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Xianbei raiders have a weird attack method(idk how to spell it lol)
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Hero unit obviously
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Units produce food? How much and how? To vague as well as novel.
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+4 melee armor I won’t argue with, that’s fine.
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This is all on top of getting used to Hei Guang cav and Traction trebs.
All together this is 4 Gimmicks. Devs should at least change or remove 2.
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I think this means “popularity” is not really always a blessing.
3K was understood in China so well. There were countless publications, games and movies about it. Everyone may heard the story at least two times in different media. If you want to eat that market you had to do VERY well.
Even TW3K with its immense successful release faced some criticism (from the positive reviews too) that it could easily deviate from the “historical” course of development and character relationships. It was never considered a problem in other TW games.
And a 3K with western medieval armor and riders wearing literal tiger pelts wouldn’t do it.
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I believe I have well controlled the number of gimmick or the degree of gimmick for each civ in that proposal of mine.
For example the Wei, I replaced the economy bonus (but don’t worry it goes to the other civ), the hero, the Xianbei Raider and the effect of the Imperial Age UT, keep the ability of Tiger Cavalry and the effect of the Castle Age UT, and allow them to access to mobile trebuchets while the Traction Trebuchet would become fixed.
lol, need to finish my coffee, was too tired to realize that was a link. Will check it out.
Okay, I checked out your bonuses list and I think that with them, at least for the Wei, they would be OP.
- Eco techs -50%: Seems kind of generic and Vietnamese kind of have a better version in all honesty.
- Discounting certain military buildings: Seems like a better version of what the cumans have for a civ and synchronizes a bit too well with the next bonus.
- So this bonus is very quircky and overly complicated. Furthermore, since your stables are so cheap, it will be so easy to accomplish pre requisite that the stats will always be maxed out. Thus what they have now( a flat +15% CA, +30% Imp works the same in practice.
- This is a really weird bonus and seems like it would fit better as a unique tech(Most charge attack bonuses are from UT or UU). Sounds like a good replacement for food generating units UT.
- Team bonus: can’t argue with it.
- Overall, if the Wei received these bonuses, it would make them a worse civ. Respectively, what they have right now for eco, is at least unique while these suggested eco bonuses are already existing(though I do like the idea of a discounted barracks for some infantry civ.)
- As for military bonuses, it would essentially over complicate what they already have. Though I would like the Xiabei raider removed as you mentioned.
Viets have -0% food and -100% wood cost for the eco techs, while I give Wei -50% food and -50% wood cost for the eco techs. Besides, the Burgundians have -50% food and -0% wood cost for the eco techs but allow them available one age earlier. Personally I think that is simple and enough different.
Well I won’t mind to tweak the amount of discount to maybe -30%, change to a new bonus, or even give the Cumans a new bonus. Hope you can inspire me a new one for this.
But if the 3K can be moved to a separated mode, I think it’s okay to see they have bonuses same as what the normal civs have.
I meant to.
Yeah it is aimed to be almost same in practice because I learned the current bonus has been complained that too similar to the Franks style, I try to change the way it works.
We can even find a historical reference for this: one of the reasons of the strength of Cao Cao’s cavalry forces is that he ordered the establishment of many official horse ranches.
I understand but not gonna make it replace the UT so far. This bonus is aimed to remain the identity of having interesting mounted archer units in at least the Castle Age, as the Xianbei stuffs get removed and the CAs return, and the charge ability is to have CAs performance somehow like the original Xianbei Raiders.
But I think if this goes to be the Castle Age UT, the effect of current one (soldiers can generate food) may be possible to be a civ bonus after tweaking the generating rate (I’d say the balance would be difficult for it), and the discount for the eco bonuses can be canceled. However it’s just hard to find a historical reference for a unique mounted archery upgrade for the Wei, since the group mounted archery had never been an important part in the warfare during the 3K.
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*replace the civs.
Problem solved.
On serious note, let’s hope another remake of this game will happen in the future and just like AoM Chinese was removed in AoMR, these 3k civs will be removed in the 3rd remake.
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It’s over, if anything was to happen it would’ve been announced already in an update to the game. Nothing is going to happen
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This is a misconception. There is a disclaimer in both the base game and the dlc that says that the content can change anytime.
In other words, they can move 3K to its own game mode like ror and chronicles, and that’d be perfectly legal. As long as the dlc per se is still part of the game when players launch aoe2DE, anything is fine.
Besides, the dlc was launched as advertised, so “false advertisement” claims would be dismissed in court even if MS moves 3K out of the base game and to its own game mode later.
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There has been a single small update since release which only addressed bugs, and it said “keep telling us you hate it”.
That’s not “nothing”. It’s only nothing if they do a bigger update and there is no follow-up, THEN we know nothing is going to happen.
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Well if they keep it that way its fine, i dont care about that specific part of history, if they change it its fine, I payed for 5 civs in ranked and if they give me 5 civs I dont care the names of them. If anything if they give me free stuff because some people complained its fine.
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What was advertised was 5 RANKED civs, push them to another module or anything, but they have to give 5 ranked civs whatever tha names are.
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Hence the idea of fully reworking the 3K in the main module to make proper medieval civs (rework rename…) while they stay as is in a separate 3K module
I’d rather they make 3 new ones from scratch. Otherwise that’s 3 abomination civs that are just a mess historically. I know it’s not a perfect game for that, but at least all the others have some basis in it.
It would kill two birds with one stone to rip some of the bonuses the “mOunTeD tReBucHeT” and the castle out of Khitans and use it to help make the Tanguts. Then add two more while the 3K go to an alternative mode.
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by “reworking” I meant just keeping the bare minimum to establish continuity while fully tailoring them toward an actual new civ, with new name crest you name it. Just the barest legal minimum
mmmmmmmm 13 scenarios (no I don’t count three variations of the same final scenario as three scenarios, just as if you split dos pilas I wouldn’t give you credit for adding a scenario to the game) is an all time low for new a DLC.
I actually don’t HATE the idea of having a shared final scenario in a vacuum. But as it is, it just feels like a cost cutting measure.
Also they couldn’t bother to spend 5 minutes on wikipedia to learn that tanguts weren’t remotely related to Khitans, nor that Northern Wei and Wei have as much in common as Babe Ruth and Babe (1995)
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