Yes. It could be a Cavalry Archer with -1 attack, -1 range, -10 HP… it’s worth a try
1 Like
Yes, something similar to Donjon, although I would start with Castle Age and make the towers a little more expensive to balance it out…
Yes, that’s what I mean… so much water has flowed under the bridge since the release of AoE 2, that it’s no longer the same game as in 1999, but seems more like a game from 2006 (since it incorporates heroes like WC3 and AoM, a complete reskin of buildings and priests like in RoN or native civs with gunpowder like The Warchiefs with the Mapuche)…
I am not entirely opposed to this idea, but it needs to be very carefully balanced. even if the unit has 1 hp and 1 attack in feudal, if they produce as fast as normal CA this is OP. With CA it’s important to get to a critical mass, being able to produce them earlier is extremely strong.
they would have to produce super slowly.
1 Like
Another thread to sneak in my Britons rework idea.
Civilization Bonus
Foot Archer +1/+2 range in Castle/Imperial Age → Tower +1/+2 attack in Castle/Imperial Age.
Unique Units
Longbowman - Archer can be upgraded to Longbowman instead of Crossbowman.
Longbowman old stat → Longbowman new stat (Xbow, Arbalester stat)
Upgrade cost and time - 175food/75gold, 30 seconds (150food/75gold, 25 seconds)
Elite Longbowman cost and time 850food/850gold, 60 seconds → 400food/500 gold, 45 seconds (450food/400gold, 50 seconds)
Training time 18 seconds → 25 seconds (27 seconds)
Range 5, 6 → 6, 7 (6, 7)
Attack 6, 7 → 5, 6 (5, 6)
Attack bonus vs spearman +2 → +3 (+3)
Accuracy 70%, 80% → 80% (85%, 90%)
Attack Delay 0.5 → 0.35 (0.35)
LOS 7, 8 → 8, 9
[Elite Longbowman having 1PA is unchanged]
Billman - An infantry unit with attack bonus vs cavalry.
Cost: 35 food/40 gold
Training Time: 12 seconds
HP: 70, 80
Attack: 9, 12
Attack Bonus: +6, +8 vs cavalry, +4, +6 vs camel, +12, +15 vs elephant
ROF: 2.0
Melee Armor: 2, 4
Pierce Armor: 1
Speed: 1.0
LOS: 5
Upgrade Cost and Time: 900food/550gold, 45 seconds
Unique Technology
Yeoman: Towers no longer get the extra attack. Cost and time reduced 750wood/450gold, 60 seconds → 400wood/300gold, 40 seconds
1 Like
That’s normal; archers are also produced more slowly than crossbowmen
1 Like
Yeah, this was in my mind even before the training speed nerf. Bengalis bonus for every scout unit. Skirmisher have their own armor class for a while now and yet no generic unit has attack bonus against them.
1 Like
Per unit costs are not as relevant as per stats costs. Food is arguably the most valuable resource, and infantry cost a lot of it. Infantry is relatively expensive.
Except they suck on those maps too. Once the MaA timing is passed, infantry isn’t viable until late Imp, and even then you need a really strong bonus for champions to be worth it.
In my opinion, the problem with infantry is the lack of utility. In every case where infantry could conceivably be viable another unit is nearly as good as them or better, and significantly better in multiple other regards. Versus buildings, scouts; versus walls, archers or rams; versus towers, villagers, towers, mangonels, rams, or castles; versus trash, skirmishers or walls; versus cavalry, archers or walls: infantry is just outclassed.
Towers fall off hard once castle age hits. They wouldn’t even need the cost increase. The Serjant-Donjon pairing is only strong because Serjants are themselves strong and can build more Donjons. The ability to train a normal power unique unit from towers beginning in castle age would be a relatively situational usage.
I wouldn’t say getting bombard towers means a civ can “get gunpowder” even though it’s technically true. If you haven’t won before bombard tower, already a rare situation, then adding bombard towers will rarely increase your chances of victory.
If the train time is too long there’s not much point in making them in feudal at all (RIP champi). I think something like 35HP, 4 attack, 3 range, 1.1 MS, 42~50 sec train time would be about right considering it’s a civ bonus.
My Franks rework idea
Civilization Bonus
Foragers work +15% → 25% faster.
Cavalry Units → Knight Line +20% HP
Castles are 15%/25% cheaper in Castle/Imperial Age → Castles are 20% cheaper.
Unique Unit
Throwing Axeman (Elite) range increased 3 (4) → 4 (5)
Unique Technology
Bearded Axe is removed.
New Unique Tech - Units garrisoned inside Castle heal 2X faster and garrisoned cavalry fire arrows. (300f/200g, 40 sec)
I believe that this allows more flexible design of UU. If the UU can be produced in barracks or stable, its power may be too generic for a UU. At least Guard towers can fend off siege in Castle age.
The graphical updates and the civilization additions are welcome on my behalf. The only exception being the Three Kingdoms Civs (Wu, Wei, Shu), the botched up Khitanguts and the hero units.
Otherwise, I think AOE2 is doing well and going in the right direction.
1 Like
Yes, it would be more for rushing or defending a specific area… In AoE 3, outposts can create units (e.g., the British can create longbowmen and pikemen with a card, and the Africans can create riders and spearmen) to rush or defend your base…
Yes, it would be like borrowing technology from another civilization (in this case, the Mapuche from the Spanish, who occupied the bases built by the Spanish during Lautaro’s campaign)…
Yes, I loved that they’re going in that direction, and yes, the 3K DLC is kind of weird… they should have left the 3K for Chronicles and made a more appropriate medieval DLC like Yue Fei’s Legacy for Age of Empires 4 with Jurchens and Khitans against the Song…
1 Like
Is Yu Fei’s Legacy good though? The steam reviews are not great. Much like AOE2 Jurchen, they don’t speak Manchu!
1 Like
Yes, it’s decent and that’s it (if you’re going to buy it, it would mainly be for Yue Fei’s campaign and to play with the Jurchens 2.0)…it has mixed reviews on Steam because people keep asking for the Spanish as a civilization:
“Get the damn Spaniards out of here already - before you run out of budget or get canceled. The PvE campaign is appreciated.”
“A DLC that barely does the job. I’m only still supporting it because it’s clear the game has much greater potential than they’ve been able to realize. Let’s hope this latest DLC with a new civilization is a sign they’re on the right track.”
“It’s a new civilization, not a variant, and it’s cool and original. If you like campaigns, it also has a new one.”
“Good”
“Get the damn Spaniards out of here already.”
Teutons is one of the 2 civs that was identified as “Defensive” in the OG game AOK. But changed to “Infantry” from AOC.
They have a lot of civ bonuses but most of them are situational and none of them are interesting in today’s standard. They are now a perfect example of generic civ without any interesting gameplay. The main reason is that some of their bonuses competes with each other. For example -
- TK vs Extra Melee Armored Militia line - This is the same situation as Britons Xbow vs Longbow. Teutons should be the last civ to get extra MA on militia line.
- Monk +4 healing range vs Free Herbal Medicine - A unit can not be healed by monk when garrisoned. Not to mention both of the bonuses are very situational. It is no surprising that Teutons didn’t even have Herbal Medicine until DE as devs wanted players to use their monk to heal. This being said, the new “Herbal Medicine is free” does synchronize well with their Tower, TC extra garrison space bonus.
1 Like
What they can do now is to split certain original bonuses that feel “overextended” like Franks cavalry +20% HP can simply adjust to knights only, identity wise there’s no reason why Franks should have light cav with higher HP, that could go to another civ. Similar example with Teutons, as you said no reason why all their infantry should have high armour when they have Teutonic knights. You can make many other examples like Britons, Mongols, Celts, maybe even Vikings and Goths… this way they would free many bonuses for new civs who won’t have to rely on gimmicks.
1 Like
I was speaking in regard to towers needing to be made more expensive to compensate for training units from them. I think it would be fun to train a unique unit from towers in castle age.
Not Chronicles specifically, but another variant like Chronicles.
Unfortunately, I was never able to experience the “Teuton Death Stars”.
What if the “Garrisoned infantry fire arrows” aspect of Crenelations was made the team bonus instead of long-range healing? And maybe Crenelations could gain “Town Centers gain range from Fletching and Bodkin Arrow” (and Bracer when possible). Then the extra melee armor for infantry could be removed.
If I’m not mistaken, it used to be that way. But I guess Franks were too weak in Feudal age. Personally, I’d like the Frank and Mapuche bonuses swap places (with appropriate value tweaks for balance). Mapuche have, in my opinion, the stronger units of the two civs.
Nah, it would be a lot of work. Besides, I did ask for a DLC like 3K back in the day, but for the final existence of Chronicles… currently you have 6 civilizations in Chronicles… with 3K you’d have 9 civilizations… with that you could make a ranked version of Chronicles where you could even use heroes (the Spartan Polemarch and the Athenian Strategos against the 3K heroes would be really cool to see, like in AoM with the Greeks heroes fighting against the Chinese ones)…
Absolutely.
No need. Mongols already have that.
I understood. Although I must say Mongols CA not having attack bonus vs siege and Vikings Militia not having regeneration make Mangudai and Berserk a lot more unique than Longbow and TK. Also Celts Militia having +5%/+10% more speed than generic is nothing compared to Woad Raider.
- Forgotten Empires double buff them: +25% forager bonus and +20% extra HP bonus was extended to scout and CA.
Long range healing is not their team bonus. Their team bonus is units have more conversion resistance: +3 min, +1 max monk conevrsion attempt.
I think this can be made into a generic tech in university and replace it with another bonus for Teutons.
A long time ago, maybe in 2022 or even earlier, Nili asked if Teutons could get Gold Shaft Mining. I think it would have been a good change back then. But now, with Georgians, Lithuanians, Burgundians, Poles, and Ever green Franks, Teutons maybe need something more than Gold Shaft Mining. I’d recommend Thumb Ring being added.