I’m pretty sure the name is just simply going to be “Japanese”.
Sultanate of Tokugawa
Please god let it be the Japanese.
One of the insider mails confirmed ‘AoE4 expansion - Japanese’ or something like that, as a caption of the image…
Simple as that.
We have the Chinese, the English and the French, so why not the Japanese.
Japan was one country under one Emperor for all of the Middle Ages.
Yes that Emperor didn’t always actually have the power, and yes there were a lot of internal conflicts but it was still seen as one country.
There was no Germany in the Middle Ages though, that’s why it’s called the Holy Roman Empire.
Agree, also it will be cool to see Koreans and Vietnamese too in the next DLC.
I hope as you say they are not called only Japanese, I particularly appreciate the historical fidelity, for example the Delhi Sultanate, they are not called Indians.
It is important to remember how to cover historical accuracy is important, not to continue misinformation, many times we all rely on so much information that we acquire in life, based on everything, if we rely too much on Age of Empire 4, we are reduced to confusing ourselves with things that are not accurate and others that are, so I hope accurate, at least for the name.
So could we all agree to call the them Japanese Shogunate?
No. No we cannot. Don’t overcook the dish.
Civ names in this franchise are not complicated.
The problem is that there were two shogunates in the Middle Ages: Kamakura (1185-1333) and Ashikaga (1336-1573)… lastly, Japanese is broader and you can include units from both shogunates…
The auto-translator translates it as “Slave Country”… I don’t think the japanese public like that name very much.
The Nakoku, on the other hand, was not all medieval Japan, but a small kingdom that existed in Satsuma during the “High Middle Ages” before the Heiai era. Being a small kingdom on an island, it went unnoticed to the point that the rest of the country only found out about its existence in the Edo era (>1600), and only as ruins, because by then there was the Satsuma clan that dominated the entire archipelago.
However, Nakoku was one of the 5 small kingdom that become subordinates of China of the Jing Dinasty (Tributary system of China - Wikipedia). Because these were called “Wa kings”, the Japanese archipelago became known abroad as Wa. I’ll talk about that later.
If everyone want to know more about the Japanese name for Aoe IV, consider reading the English Wikipedia article “Names of Japan”.
Before the birth of Christ, the land called Japan was not united, but it became united when a kingdom called Yamatai began to conquer all the kingdoms of the main island (the one in the center of HONSHU), becoming a confederation and naming itself “Yamatai”. (0 AD - 300 AD). Later this kingdom would become Yamato, this due to the change of regents by the Imperial family (300 AD-700 AD).
On the northern island, HOKKAIDO, were the Ainu tribes. Because it was very cold and difficult to map, they were isolated from other towns until the Edo era.
On the other hand, in the western islands, KYUSHU, there were several small kingdoms, which lived in their own world because they were an archipelago. Many of these mini-kingdoms managed to trade with China, and became their ####### at some point. This includes the island of Satsuma and the mini-kingdom of Nakoku.
At some unknown time, what is called the mythological period (~300 AD), the first Japanese emperor is crowned and his lineage CHANGES the name of the empire: The kingdom becomes known to the nobility as “The Yamato Kingdom”, however, the set of lands it controls was called “The kingdom where the sun rises”, which in Japanese is pronounced NIPPON (“Origin of the Sun”), referring to the fact that Japan is the farthest country on the map that can be located in the EAST (THE sun rises in the east). Consider that the Japanese never considered exploring the East, so they never found America, the pre-Incas, Mayans or Toltecs, so for them they were the easternmost country that existed.
As a curiosity, they gave it this name because the Chinese kingdom (Han, Jin, etc.) began to call this country “Wa”, which although at first it did not mean anything, over time it began to be seen with negative connotations, until its current use (dwarf, lego foreigner) so to use another more beautiful trade name, Nippon was invented.
Archaeologically, it is called the Yamato Kingdom because that is the name of the imperial lineage, but as I mentioned, the Japanese themselves called their own land NIPPON. On the other hand, it is debated among the same Japanese historians when the first Japanese emperor was supposedly born. According to family records, Amaterasu’s first child must have been born around 600 B.C. However, archaeological records say that his clan did not rise to power until 300 AD onwards, and there is still dispute as to whether the dynasty of 700 AD is connected to that of 300 AD.
Let it be clear, unlike the Chinese, whose emperor and lineage can change but the idiosyncrasy is the same (The Mandate of Heaven), in Japan the monarchy has been maintained since 300 AD without interruption, although the The emperor’s power has waned a lot and varied based on the era.
In addition, like the Incas, the Japanese also say that the Emperor is the Son of the Sun (which for them was a female goddess), so he had a divine character.
On the other hand, according to Shinto beliefs, death is detestable and everything rots, even cities, so every certain number of years, the Yamato Empire changed its capital. Because of this, each new change of capital changed the name of the Dynasty.
After the year 1180, a coup deposed the Emperor, and a new King Ruled, the Shogun. The Emperor became something akin to a Pope subservient to an emperor, a ruler in name only, whose only role was to be the visible head of Shintoism and the chief administrator of Buddhist temples.
Because the Imperial Family no longer ruled in practice, the term Yamato lost power, and foreigners began to refer to the country as NIPPON.
Since then, the country has continued to be known in the Middle Ages as Nippon. When the Portuguese got there, they transcribed it as JIPPON, then JIAPPON, and then JAPON. The English wrote it like this and pronounced it YAPON (Ja-pon).
Therefore, a good name for the Japanese for Age IV time period would be NIPPON, if not JAPAN, whatever they like better.
For real thats what i was thinking too lol
Seems a bit limiting to call something by its (effective) Western name. I really enjoyed @GoldenArmorX’s post on the topic above.
Yeah, it is certainly reasonable to have something other than the Japanese. The Yamato in AoE1 were essentially the Japanese, of course.
I appreciate predictable design rules, and I bristle against erratic exceptions. To that extent, civ names in this franchise have always been the names of the people (“the Xs” or “the X” etc.) and not the names of a governing body. I am unable to reconcile things like the Dehli Sultanate, Abbasid Dynasty (for several reasons), or Japanese Shogunate (also the United States, which is a super weird one from latter day AoE3). I would welcome the Nippon or something similar, too.
Another factor that may not be relevant to this specific discussion about the name of the Japanese civ: There is almost certainly a marketing aspect to naming civs in the game, too. I assume it is harder to excite players about a fancy new civ when they have no idea what civ you are talking about.
Yamato looks good in AoE 1 because it’s ancient age (iron age)…in the rest of the saga, just Japanese looks good…