I refuse to open any of these topics discussing ottoman buffs or identity. But wondering what the general consensus is on jan nerfs? What are the pros and casters saying?
I’m wondering if jans need to regain the ranged class (because its irrational they dont have it) but instead reduce the bonus damage taken?
Possibly reduce bonus damage from ranged? And possibly (doesnt need this) give them “ranged class” armour. So they take reduced bonus damage from being ranged?
Get rid of the +50% ranger damage taken and replace it with standard ranger unit weaknesses.
It’s unintuitive and they get countered by too many things.
Not a good idea. If bonus damage to cav stays, only javelin throwers and mangonels can counter them.
Ottoman is an A-tier civ. See no reason to buff or nerf them. Better to nerf China and buff Mali.
Beasty and Drongo said theyre good. Drongo explained why he thinks unit is good on his youtube video but I’ve only seen beasty on the topic shortly answering a question so he didn’t really explained like what’s the role and situations the unit excels at. And Demu said something like “change is a good start at least”. He didn’t seem satisfied with the changes but It was a video from a stream thats probably recorded 1 or 2 weeks after the bugfix so he might have changed his opinions.
I did some testing in my games and I personally think they can really make a difference in castle age but in imperial neither Gbombard nor janissaries can compensate for the lack of their generic counterparts.
jans are getting nerfed, im trying to find out in what way
yeah i guess its still early for them to give a concrete opinion on if/how they should change. but yeah they’re an excellent unit, and because ottos military eco is so good, it doesnt matter if their imperial isnt the best
what is the generic counterpart of a GBBC? a BBC? you’re saying a GBBC is worse than a BBC? :S jans fill a different (but overlapping) role to HC, their dps vs MAA per cost is still exactly the same as a generic HC in imp, except with fewer counters
You mean mehter? That’s the unit pros requested nerfs for.
thats definitely getting nerfed as well, alteast the speed, but wondering if they will adjust the aura, i guess any aura nerf is a nerf to jans as well. but the buff for jans was too much, so its a matter of retuning them
Gbombard takes an option that is cheaper but equally effective against buildings from Ottomans. This makes quickly getting rid of that keep in imperial much harder for Ottomans, almost impossible if enemy has culverins.
The deal with janissariesin late game is they arent reliable as handcannoneers in the late game, like you can mass HCs when you have the economic power for it but you can’t mass jans even if you have the eco for it.
You might say thats where the great bombard comes into play but that’s not how it works from my experience. Theorically, great bombard can take down both siege and enemy range units while your janissaries eliminate any threat of cavalry. But thats not how it plays out, you can make only a limited number of great bombards with Ottoman eco and janissaries die too fast to range units. Because of these, the battle plays out like this: you have to choose to either focus enemy springalds with gbombards and give up your janissaries or focus range units and give up your bombards. And both choices lead to defeat.
I don’t think speed is much of a problem, Aura decrease might fix it but I think main issue of the unit is its just too flexible and it makes you win any mirror battles. Making their drums unchangable might be helpful(you select the beat when the unit pops out and thats it). Or number nerfs to their buffs.
honestly they perform really bad
the 50% bonus damage taken by ranged is too much, plenty of units / buildings attack by ranged, it countered by too many things
their survivabilty is too low, they die too easily, even from knights which they are supposed to counter
low cost low stats is a really bad use of population in late game, where quality beat quantitiy
from my experience regular handcannons perform way better than jans , yes they are more expensive but also they survive way much more than jans, making them worth investment when pop is maxed.
late game handcannons deal 42 dmg to everything, health 130
late game jans deal 28 to everything, 48 to cav, health 105, (70 health if all their attackers are ranged)
I think Jans are fine. Not OP, just good.
I doubt they get nerfed.
The Mehter would be more likely to be nerfed.
This is getting beyond ridicilous.
This topic, like about all other regarding it, is so backwards you end up talking about ways to make a unit stronger after starting up about nerfing it.