We have been having conversations about cavalry bias of this game for a long time, but nowhere is it more prominent than the unit line-up.
Let’s look at units in each building, shall we?
Stable: 7 units, 5 Regional Units - Scout-line, Knight-line, Battle Elephants, Camel Riders, Steppe Lancers, Winged Hussar
Archery Range: 5 units, 1 Regional Unit - Archer-line, Skirmisher-line, Cavalry Archer, Elephant Archer, Hand Cannoneer
Barracks: 3 units, 1 Regional Unit - Militia-line, Spear-line, Eagles
Stable has the overwhelming majority of regional units. This is so bad that the only barrack regional unit is actually a replacement for lacking stable. The only regional archer units was released quite recently, and are still not well-balanced. Not to mention that this has a side effect of making barracks look completely barren in comparison to the other buildings.
So, what’s up with this? Why does the stable get as many regional units as all the units in the archery range, and more than double the total units in the barracks?
People have been suggesting ideas for new infantry units, and it’s time we added some as regional units. It might be cool to see some variation in archer regional units too.
On another thread I proposed the hwacha as a RU for Chinese Koreans and Mongols (future Jurchens too), which would be a unique siege unit.
We were debating whether having it replace the onager and siege onager, replace the scorpion line or be added on top of them, but it looks like a good choice that could synergise well with all 3 civs bonuses and UTs.
While we’re talking about unique siege, this one may be more controversial but…
Monster Bombard :
Available to the Magyars (made the massive gun used at Constantinople) and the Turks (bought and used that very gun)
Available in the siege engineers, requires chemistry
Available alongside the bombard cannon
Massive cost, say 2x the bombard cannon
Massive damage vs buildings
Slow projectile, slow to reload, so overall less cost-effective vs troops (some blast radius though)
This impractical abomination still reminds that size does matters (you were wrong, Helen of Troy !!!) when the time comes of making big holes in city walls.
Im curious how do you define a regional unit?Units like the condoteri genitor imp skirmishers can be trained by allies so are they regional when you have an ally? Or units like camels and be which multiple civis can tarain now.
Camels are usually not counted as regional, anyone being somewhat associated to the desert from the Malians to the Chinese have it. Likewise the paladin is only in Europe, with the exception of the Persians.
I think you are overthinking… 7 of +40 civs make BE regional… plus all those civs come together in differents DLCs. I don’t find any argument against it.
Same with eagles. You put it in doubt but don’t give any reason…
Let me ask you how many civis had camels initially? It was 7 in the original cd version same as the BE current count.If they add more indian or sea civis BE automatically becomes a generic unit line.
Don’t get your point… Camels are regional too… Any unit out of those unit-lines that are omnipresent (Spear-line, Militia-line, Skirm-line, archer-line, CA-line, Scout-line, Knight-line) except for a few specific exceptions are regional…
Units which are shared amoung multiple civs not as a civ bonus, and not available to all civs in the original DE release.
Units which are not available to over 75% of the civ. By units, I only mean the unit-line. Paladin isn’t available to 75%+ of civs, but Knight is.
Obviously, none of the units which are shared as a civ bonus count for this purpose.
Both these definitions effectively give the same result in terms of which units are regional, and in my opinion, camels are most certainly regional.
That same wiki link you posted says that regional is an unofficial classification.The game doesn’t consider anything to be regional If you want to fight over that word, be my guest. My point stands regardless.
You’ve shown that you are wrong in the second line, my friend. Eagles don’t take bonus damage from the spear line. Sure, they are a replacement for cavalry, but they don’t take bonus damage from spears. And they are decidedly not cavalry.
But that’s an interesting observation you’ve made. It does feel like even the archery range regional units are cavalry units. We could really use a few barrack units just so that it doesn’t feel so darn empty any more in the late game.
That thread on regional units is really cool, btw. I like the idea of a regional archer unit which is specifically good against cavalry, kinda like a generic genoese crossbow.
I think that there’s just one unit that messes up the definition for everyone. That’s the knights, with Dynasties of India. Before the DLC, I’d have agreed with you, on the account that meso civs don’t get stables. But this definition would now make knights regional units, and I don’t think they are.
I think regional units are largely considered such if they’re confined to one or two cultures or culture groups in-game. Camels are not technically regional units because a) they’re very common now, and b) they’re multicultural and are available to many different civilizations with different cultural backgrounds. All the other regional units are only available to civs with specific cultures that warrant their usage.
Personally, I think the Ethiopians should have either the Battle Elephant or Armored Elephant, but that’s just me.
They take a whole +1 from the Spear Line. It’s basically nothing but it’s still there.
Same with the Dromon, it takes +17 from Halberdiers but how often do you get the chance to use that?
That is a symptom that dates back to AoE1. Every Iron Age Archery Range unit is mounted. And 1/2 Bronze Age ones are too. Many civilisations only have access to mounted Archer units.
If you count the Winged Hussar as a self-standing unit, then even the Imperial Skirmisher should. And what about Genitours? And the Slinger? The count then would be 4 regional unit.
Take in count that the Xolotl Warriors isn’t really self standing: he’s not different from Knight-line and isn’t a viable option since has no upgrades at all.
And you are forgetting that Barracks can produce even Condottieros and the brand new Legionary.
Ah, maybe we should take in cosideration even Huskarl and Tarkan?
