Yeah but it also halves their attack and speed. There’s really no point other than to soak some extra damage, it’s not really a bonus that distinguishes the coyote to be different enough to be a buff, it’s very niche imo. Imo Inca no snare is more useful in more situations.
4 Likes
Increase their speed of attack. Quick buff without changing any inherent stats otherwise. Doesn’t make them anymore durable than they already are, doesn’t change their speed and doesn’t make them better at tanking fire.
But why? when other civs just need some horses and 5 cannons to end a skirmisher mass. Aztec really struggle to kill them, even more behind walls.
Coyotes suppose to counter them as easily as cav+cannon combo because it’s the only true skimr counter Aztecs have, but they can’t.
2 Likes
After little rework of Aztecs a few patches ago I feel like they are finally in a really good spot 
The only thing they are missing now is ability to fight big skirmishers mass protected by a few heavy infantry units.
Aztecs have only one unit in roster which can fight skirmishers effectively - Coyote Runner. And he does not have any multiplier against ranged infantry nor splash damage. If Coyote is not able to reach Skirmishers because of heavy infantry around the whole Aztec army will be killed by Skirmishers (they directly counter Puma Spearman, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Skull Knight, Eagle Runner Knight and they fight cost effectively against Arrow Knight and Otontin Slinger which is crazy).
How to solve this issue? In my opinion devs must be very careful to not overdo but this situation could be improved. Here are some ideas:
- Give Arrow Knights multiplier against Infantry or just Skirmishers/Archers and increase their cost
- Give Arrow Knights small Area of Effect and increase their cost
- Give Coyote Runners possibility to have multiplier against Skirmishers/Archers in later stages of the game (Age III and forward)
In my opinion option 1 or 2 would be the best one.
2 Likes
The large masses of skirmishers with Aztecs, usually with otomis slinger, are already enough. Also an ambush with coyote runners with stealth can be easily destroyed. I think that unlike the other 3 natives, the Aztecs in general have no problem countering combinations.
I clarify, I am talking about 1v1 supremacy and team games.
2 Likes
When compared to a 1 pop Cossack the coyote could use a buff, ofc it’s not apples to apples but since Aztec has only 1 hand cavalry type unit, it should at least be a little bit stronger imo
2 Likes
If you ask me, rather than bringing the coyote closer to the Cossack, I would bring the Cossack closer to the coyote, it is a very efficient cavalry unit.
Different civilizations are different. Cossaks are so effective because Russia infantry is trash.
2 Likes
Aztecs need a shock infantry buff in team games and treaty. With the current meta of skirms + goons + canons, hand cavalry is very important for effective counters. Currently, coyotes with all the right cards and warhut upgrades could be quite decent, problem is late game viability over the AK and also how many cards you need to send in just to make them good. Pretty much every other civ even native civs have better hand type cavalry imo.
Well, I think you’re right, I think the best solution would be to modify Industrial’s otomi card (which was added relatively recently) so that it also affects coyotes and maybe pumas. That yes, I am against increasing the HP and base attack of the coyote, or giving him improvements in commercial or in fortress, bcs the coyote is on a very fine line between being balanced and being broken.
PS: I also still maintain that the coyote needs multipliers vs artillery, like the Kanya, the Ax ryder and Chimu
1 Like
That’s a good idea, adjusting the useless otontin slinger combat card to also affect pumas and coyotes hp and att by 15 % in age 4 sounds juicy no cap.
4 Likes
of all the suggestions ive seen so far, this is probably the best one. i agree on the arty multiplier as well, they are the only native civ that doesnt have bonuses on (Both!) their cavalry units
There’s a much simpler solution than this; make Arrow Knight ranged attacks deal siege damage. That would make them deal 30% more damage to Skirmishers without being any stronger versus heavy infantry. Their multiplier versus artillery would need to be dropped to x1.25 to compensate. This would also make them do 10% more damage to most hand cavalry and 20% more to most ranged cavalry but I don’t think that would be too excessive.
1 Like
Yes I agree with changing AK att to siege damage like the huaraca, Aztec knights should also shadow tech upon reaching the 3rd age similar to Inca kallanka nobles. Since aztec nobles rely on too many upgrade cards, their age 3 could be quite slow to get the ball rolling in terms of making a decent mass of erk and ak because you need to send in your combat cards. By shadow teching to elite, you no longer need to send those combat cards. Just remove the att and hp combat cards for balance. Since the skull knight will lose out on not having those combat cards just make the “rack of skulls” buff their att and hp by 15%. Buff the AK +1 att +1 siege, and .25 speed for jaguar and you got a viable age 3 ff.
once again the big issue with arrow knights dealing siege damage is then the attack ceremony would not affect them, leading to a net 37% NERF in the late game. that would make them even worse vs skirms and artillery than without the change. Arrow knights are pretty ok now with that hp buff, they probably could use a damage buff on that temple card (like 30% instead of 20%) but siege damage is a nerf, truly
1 Like
Would it actually though? It would still be their ranged attack. And if it works like that, wouldn’t the siege dance affect them instead?
if you mod the proto to deal siege damage, the damage remains unaffected by the plaza. this is why haudenosaunee dont have their light cannon buffed by the plaza. the siege one that lakota (only) has will affect team shipments of artillery, or if you mod in, it affects the damage stats of grenadiers or abus guns (on tad commancheros dealt siege damage in melee and could be buffed in this manner as well).
1 Like
Seems like Aztecs should have the same style as Lakota since they can’t actually get cannons so buffing siege on Arrow Knights wouldn’t be an issue. It would also make it more consistent for other units like Desert Raiders that do melee siege damage that Aztecs can get access to in some cases.
I like the combat card idea, another potential idea is something like the incan native allies card I think.
the Zapotec or Mayan ally being always a choice would a be a good boost to the aztec army + their techs (either increased HP or hand attack) not to mention the eco techs.
I actually some version of the incan embassy card should be available to all the native civs.
haud could get Cree/Cherokee/Huron
lakota - Comanche/Navajo/Cree
Aztec - Maya/Zapotec/Carib
Its fine if there is some overlap
2 Likes
there is a few small issues with the exact suggestion you had (mayan cotton armour + zapotec would be a 20%/20% to coyote, puma, jpk, the human tank warchief, skull knights and janeys, and the carib vill bonus applies to erks slings and ak. carib brewing is also a flat 10% to every single aztec unit) but there is potential for something along those lines. aztec is already an extremely complex civ so any changes shouldn’t work to worsen that issue
2 Likes