1 out of every 3 games, a chinese civ will just spam fire lancers and win the game for their team. The dev team needs to do a heavy nerf, the game against/with a chinese civ is about as fun as watching paint dry.
next year xD
Yep, every fix and patch will take more than a month, while they fix, players will suffer.
It already started showing its effects on player base.
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Want to trade places? I play 4on4 and every game has chinese in them and every single one of them spams into pure fire lancers and shift clicks landmarks. It is the reason most of my friends stopped playing and by extention I cannot play team games anymore; because you need MI6 coordination with your allies just to counteract 40 firelancers.
We have had game breaking bugs, yet none of those have been so detrimental to the game as firelancers are. It cannot be put into words how terrible this unit is, both from a balance point of view, from an execution point of view or from a fun point of view.
No idea how spingalds were prioritized over firelancers. At least springalds can be produced by every faction. Games versus chinese are just worth terminating from the task manager while the game is loading.
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Yes it has… it’s actually getting annoying. I get it, it’s the holiday season, but damn, change the numbers in any of the variables. Increase the population by 2, cost by 50, anything at all, and push up those changes to the live server.
A-freaken-men. Quote of the year.
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Only comment here so this biggest issue of entire game is n.1 on main page again and not hidden behind some useless post like Mongol “Khan” unit cannot be female! OR Lucifron’s disgusting trick, to avoid a stockade etc. etc.
If devs. are not gonna fix this during january it simply means that team-games remains unplayable for another 2 months.
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At this point If you see Chinese opponent ask them to **** off and leave game. Don’t waste your time and let them know no one wants to play with them. Lets boycott Chinese civ unless they fix it. They can play with bots and spam fire lancers
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Tell me what are you doing to stop the firelancer cheese? To me sounds like you’re complaining because you can’t deal with single unit type.
Is that any different from french going cavalry? Nope.
Firelancers got multiple weaknesses and ways to deal with them. They’re like banelings in SC2. Can demolish and destroy whole economy or buildings quickly if player is caught off guard, but when player is aware of them then they’re not that amazing unit.
Then ask yourself. Are you top tier player? If so. Why don’t you tell us why none of the pro tournaments or high elo players are using them like you described? Maybe consider that the issue is at your end and your way of playing.
Nerffing a unit because low elo players like us are not good against something is bad for balance, but maybe rework them and make them actually viable unit.
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TL;DR
“Don’t nerf my build, I can’t win without it,”
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TL:DR
I can play any unit comp from china because its been my only civ I play with and its been since d1. FL, with or without, mixed with cannons spears etc. China is very reaction based civ and any good player who is high enough knows well enough not to get cheesed by FL.
And I rarely loose to FL cheese because while I might not be that great of player. I take it into consideration whenever I face China and I only play 2v2 and I sure make it loud and clear to my random teammate if FL is on table and coming towards us.
No need to continue. Everything is clear. Picked up the strongest civ (even without firelancers).
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Oh yeah, you definitely proved my point.
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Bullseye, he’s going to shill for the strongest build cause he can’t go up the ranks without it.
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“strongest civ” :D:D:D:D
Its funny. What about RU? Mongols? Ah yeah ofc none of those exist.
China is good civ on maps that they can turtle but in other maps they’re so much weaker especially open ones. Go ahead and as any high elo player.
And tbf. I picked china on day 1 when it was considered one of the weakest civs and China still has issues and tons of weaknesses.
Sole reason why China is strong on maps that they can turtle is because they can reach imperial which is where they catch up with other civs
edit:
Here is winrates for you. Here you go with your “strongest” civ in game.
Whole post of statistic is here
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you forgot to check pickrate.
China picked as top1 on closed maps mountain pass/black forest/french pass
china reach IMP and will spam either siege or firelancers, or even both.
Try to beat Firelancers with any other civ. Let’s see ur winrate.
But u just China player, loosing to cheese rushes from Mongols and abusing siege with firelancers.
Dont understand what rights do u have to “suggest” how to beat Firelancers, if u never played against them as other civ.
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Does pickrate translate to winrate? No it doesn’t. Something can be picked in every game but if that something loses everygame whats the point of picking it then?
Ill now take only top 200 results.
Mountain Pass: HRE
Black Forest: Delhi
French Pass: HRE
None on those maps China was top. So makes me wonder. Sure thing China might be picked on those maps frequently but yet they manage to lose. Seems like plastic elo players know better just reach imp and spam firelancers and bombards.
So what would u suggest how chinese players should play? Only good landmark they got is clockwork tower and using it effectively in imperial brings china to similar level with other civs while other civs may got multiple good landmarks. Its literally only thing they got? Would be same as saying french cant use their cavalry or HRE is not allowed to use MAA or english not allowed to use LB. And even if we exclude their unique units they would still have more to fall back than china has. So great logic mr pro i know the all man
I deal with tower rushes just fine thanks for your great insight =)
“what right” You do realize. Regardless what civ I play the counter is still very similar or same and as someone who has used those cheesy tactics or all ins etc. I know well enough how to counter it. I have stopped FL rushes with lancers, palace guards, zhuge nus, grenadiers, crossbows, bombard/handcannoneer and bug of bees. So you’re telling me that the civ you play doesn’t have single unit that cant deal with unarmored unit that most players do not even control properly?
Stop making excuses for your own mistakes and try to find ways to improve yourself. Im all up for FL rework if it makes one more unit viable for china because as of now its only usable as raiding unit if opponent isn’t from plastic wooden league or way to cheese against opponent who has their pants down.
If FL was OP as you say it was it would be used in masses in high elo / pro games but its not because its not OP unit. Its â– â– â– â– unit with viability only against bad players
The first thing I tell you is that this data comes from the top 1000 players before the nerf to Springald.
The second thing is that I am waiting for these data from the last 2 weeks and when we have them raw, a better interpretation will be made.
P.S: The Fire Lancers are unbalanced as long as a significant mass of them is made and that does not usually happen in the mid / high elos, because it takes time, but it does in team games and it is a problem that must be addressed.
P.S.2: Chinese Landmarks must be mediocre for several reasons, among them is that they can all be made and for each dynasty they give you an extra bonus. The clock tower needs a nerf.
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Too bad its from patch 8324 which was released on november 30 and this data was released 15days ago meaning the buff/nerf patch for springalds and so on was already live
So if I produce 150 scouts and go snipe landmarks its unbalanced and broken? Games go long due players lacking skills to finish them faster. And they become “op” only when against player(s) who got their pants down. Its no different from WC3 where UD spammed frostwyrms and everyone in your team refused to do antiair. Exactly same thing and exactly same thing happens here.
“but i dont want to deal with them so delete the unit from the game”
I dont want to deal with ram rushes with random team mate so can we get rams deleted?
Mediocore you call them? They’re SHIT.
Barbican = probably worst defensive landmark in game
Imperial Academy = slightly better especially early game but after that losses all the value because it has effective range and you’re not able to fully use its potential
Clockwork = Arguably the best landmark china has and only reason why china is viable at imperial age or even at all. Nerf to this will automatically drop china to none viable civ. Yet the fact that Clockwork has weaknesses. 3x production only with IO and production location is where its build. Imagine English or French only able to produce their knights or LB from landmark.
Imperial Palace = Extremely situational. Overall bad. Can be used to find information of enemy villagers or other information but the cooldown on is very long and again very situational if any use can be obtained. Increased vision range around Imperial Palace. Somewhat usefull
Great wall gatehouse = Extra hp to walls. WOHOO. Or dmg when on the gate small range worthless.
Spirit Way = reduces cost of dynasty units by 30% with small range can fit like 8-11 production buildings and mostly FL imperial cheesers use this or grenadier spam but worthless overall. Also most use it has when it allows making dynasty warriors if they were unlocked previously yet still requires both imperial landmarks for grenadiers.
Dynasty bonuses sure are nice but only one is able to be used because every bonus is lost when entering next dynasty. This also means access to unique buildings is gone. So basically chinese are paying to get access to dynasty but when they want another dynasty they lose old one especially for full price and not like delhi that gets 20-30k free gold
is there 8 civs or just 3?
I asked about firelancers, not tower rush.
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You’re free to check all the stats if you want to. Can’t be arsed to write everything down here when its all front of your face.
And I stated that I deal with tower rushes just fine which is the mongol rush which high elo players are doing
What would you like to know about tower rushes. If I can ill help you get better