Turks are considered weak due to lack of trash units. What happens if they have no gold issues? How much stronger are the turks when gold is not an issue. Be it by ally trade. Or unlimited resources or something.
Or are Turks still weak even if their gold issues are fixed?
Incredibly strong. Sipahi makes their Cavalry Archers among the best in the game, and free Scout line upgrades and Chemistry makes their CA/Hussar combo even stronger. If it’s true there’s a Cavalry Archer buff coming in the November patch, then Turks might become absolute monsters. On the flip side, a CA buff might mean Turks don’t get a trash unit buff, because their great gold units would be even better than they are now.
Against civs with high pierce armor compositions, Turks can still do well with Janissary/Hussar. Other Turk land options are full Cavalier/Heavy Camel, Siege Ram, and Artillery Bombard Cannons. Turks have an underrated navy too, as their Dock is only missing Fast Fire Ship, the Galley line gets free Chemistry, their gunpowder bonuses affects the Cannon Galleon, and Artillery further boosts their Cannon Galleon and puts their Bombard Tower among one of the best anti-ship defenses in the game.
considering their extremely rare use in the team game tournament that just happened, and in the clown cup 3, which is on arena, supposedly turks best map, i’m gonna say turks just need some love in general.
then again - if the cav archer does get buffed per what we think is going to happen, they could be a good civ in general.
In my opinion it is a bit misleading to assert that, turks aren’t bad for the lack of trash per sé. There are other civs that struggle when the gold runs out because they have terrible trash.
Their problems are mainly 2:
Their gold bonus isn’t that good because it doesn’t actually let them put less vills on gold. On the other side, when in the late imp you put a lot of vills on gold, things can get out of hands, and you can burn you gold faster that you can realize, and this may deceive you.
In the castle age they struggle to counter archers without ESkirms, and usually they are reluctant to train them even in feudal, since they can’t upgrade them. In imp they do have hussars and siege rams, but still lacks the means to hurt them from distance, since they also lack onagers.
The stereotype “turks bad without trash” isn’t correct, since not all games have to drag onto a slows trash-tug-of-war-slaughter, and this isn’t a strategy that you can pretend to rely on with every civ.
I mean, if you look at their tech tree, franks have pretty bad trash too, and they aren’t a great civ when gold runs out, but I hear no one complainings for their super late game trash fights, or that they should have a trickle of gold.
Yes, of course turks are worse, but still the principle is the same.
To answer that yes and no. No because every civ would be stronger with no “gold-problem”, just look at any knight civ in a team game, and of course turks would be able to train more janissarys, BBC and HCA, but also Yes because their weakness to archers would remain, along with their lack of an impactful eco bonus.
Turks are fine unitwise, just they’re forced on archers everygame else they won’t have bonuses until castle age. And even then its barely worth anything.
Lets say you make 10 archers on feudal, which is a lot depending on the game, you will need to mine 450 (archers) + 200 (castle, fletching, loom, start) gold out of which only 108 gold is profit from the civ bonus late feudal. Compare this to any other civ and you realise turks are terrible early. Civs like Vikings and Malians get easily 400 resources worth of stuff by early feudal.
Exactly, to better visualize it, consider that basically the turks get every 5 vills mining gold, one more vill.
Now, on food or wood that would be a ridiculously powerful bonus, since you start gathering those resources very soon and you put right away a lot of vill on that, but on gold that it’s difference.
Now it depends by you build order, but usually you have about 4 vills during feudal on gold, this means about 1 vill spare that can be put on other resources, which isn’t that big deal (Italians and their cheaper age up have about the same advantage).
It isn’t until mid castle age that you have to go heavy on gold, and so that you can actually use the bonus to either free up more vills or having more gold, but by that time it will be too late.
Now I’m not saying that they are automatically doomed, just that you have consider that you eco bonus don’t really help you through your build order, and that their problem isn’t that the gold run out too fast, it’s that it doesn’t comes in as fast as you would expect.
I think they are balanced, not OP not weak. Just you need to know three things;
Heal your units with monks: You don’t have useless tech (herbal medicine) so definitely use monks to heal your golden army.
Hand Cannons (Imp Age) and Janissaries (need Castle) are weak to damage, most likely to die. If your gold limited go for Cavalry Archers (Castle Age), they are most likely to survive and you can heal them.
Cavalry Archers costs wood and gold, their upgrades usually cost food and gold. But units like hand cannons, Janissaries, Hussars costs food and their upgrades needs food (but cavalry archers has more upgrades, to me no problem).
In addition, usually when I go for Cavalry Archers, I switch Hussars shields later, and Turks free upgrades helps that switch. But still I think gunpowder needs buff and love. Using Cavalry Archers much more reliable than Gunpowder on a Gunpowder Civilization. Seljuks > Ottomans.
nope even with no gold problem Turks are still worst civ in game. Elite jans countered by allmost everyunit arbalest,skirms,cavaliers,paladins,hussars,onagers,elephants,Eagles,scorps,BBC,cav archer and allmost all other UU can counter elite jans pretty easyly.Other than that Turks doesn’t have strong gold units as paladins,siege onagers etc. And turks doesnt have any specific bonus on their gold units like champs xbows etc. Their HC are little bit +9 hp stronger but they are very useless unit rather than fast imp arena strategy which can be countered with xbows or knights at ease. They have only HCA that is pretty tanky but still its one of the most useless unit in game as those have hell of a damn frame delay and their attack rate is very low and dont have good killing or raiding capacity.So even with infinite gold u can’t do much with Turks jans bbc HCA is all u got and they are weakest and most useless units in game. Thats that . So dont pick turks and u are fine
If you can make it to full pop FU HCA, even without the UT, you can win a patrol war with most units. halbs arbalest cavalier hussar are counted at that point. Paladin can give a little trouble, I don’t have experience with camels (because the units never get made in imp) but I suspect they’d melt.
which elo are playing at bro ? u are talking about full pop HCA ! xD come on allrdy !
Cav archers are most useless units in game.
If so go for franks get full pop Palas so u won the game then xD 11 11 11
its not a thing here
They can deal good damage to Halberdier, Archers and Knight-line if they are protected and they are much more reliable than gunpowder (especially for Turks with +20 HP).
Your Hussars can counter skirms
Your Cavalry Archers with Parthian Tactics can easily get halbs when your hussars just engaging for holding them.
For Paladins it’s not reliable counter for Cavalry Archers I think no-one thinks “my enemy going for cavalry archers I need to spam knights”.
For Camels, I think Cavalry Archers and Hussars needs to be weakness to something. Just have some pikes or ally to spam pikes.
I play every game with Cavalry Archers and Hussars and game lags unranked games and I can’t micro well but even without micro Cavalry Archers + Hussars fine.
I had full pop Turkish HCA in CBA (yes, it is a different with nearly infinite resources but for example). Enemy team immediately resigned without fighting.
If my favourite unit is the most useless unit in the game I want to learn my real Elo.
Well, if you know Knight rush build order it can be true but it’s not reliable because Pikes and Camels hurts them too much.
Yes Cavalry Archers deserves buff but they are not that trash.
they just need to go for halbs skirms u will waste ur gold and they will raid ur town with hussar or palas so u will be undefened
no matter what you siad its clear that turks are one of the worst civ in game have u ever seen any1 picking turks in tournaments even in arena ? i didnt . Think urself why ?
Also Viper who is one of the best player in world called cav archers ‘‘useless’’ maybe in ur elo ppl dont rly know the game mechas i dont know.
When glance at pro’s tier list turks are allways in f or d tier ask urself why ?
No eco bonus no trash no superior gold unit nothing to rely on.only HCA which needs tons of upgrades and even after that still not that great also.I saw how uneffective they are against briton skirms eagles paladins and of course if u dont babysit them 7/24 onager shots could be ur nightmare as well.